Pamac Pending list and button contrasts

Support
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Have you told that to Gnome developers that will actually use gtk4 and libadwaita only for developing UI for mobile devices hence the entire Gnome 40 on?

Is either the theme or the app? If themes act differently, then the theme developer has to address them, if is the app, then all apps based on that UI should lack the consistency.

Apple has some design guidelines, IBM slightly different guidelines, Material Design stands for a bit different guidelines, Gnome has their own, the developer has to manage to follow one, not all (because that would be a true visual mess), and the user manages to get used to it … I guess you referred to all? :slight_smile:

True or False can’t be almost …

Why randomly? By this logic, a car should have doors in all directions i want to get out, or in, randomly.

Applications and packages i think are sorted and dealt with differently, so if is a mix of installed applications and packages you want to remove, for example, then only the applications will be shown in Browse, the other will be in Installed. If are not installed, and you want to install them, then will be shown in Browse, but because there is the Category / Groups / Repositories and each has their extra detailed entries submenu, then they get lost, being part from different groups/repository etc
Then there is the sorting part: Relevance / Name / Repository / Date / Size that adds a bit of extra complexity to all …

It probably needs just another ALL entry above the Category / Groups / Repositories (that might increase a lot the load time) but then all the random pending entries would be there.

12

That’s an idea I’ll keep in mind

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13

If you decide to add button colors in the future, maybe adding yellow or blue (or whatever will be proper) color for pending operation will be a good idea. This will save some space (on mobile) for package title and description because pending icon will not be necessary anymore.

Yellow color would be a slick idea I guess because the color scheme will be similar to traffic lights. Everybody knows how traffic lights work, so it should be easy to catch for everyone.

Just a thought :slight_smile:

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Wow! Thank you! That was my biggest concern with 10.1, to me the biggest issue. Colors were important to instantly differentiate installed packages in a list. And that regarding if it is for mobile, or not.

:+1:

//EDIT: added my album back to this thread Pamac new UI difference - Album on Imgur where we can see the color issue better.

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Thank you! The lack of contrast between buttons and an overly thick title bar (at least on Breath2 theme) are pretty much my only issues with the layout. :heart_eyes:

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Like they have ever listened to the community right…

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Are al,l in the community, designers ? :slight_smile:

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That’s really all I need to compensate for the Pending tab, indeed!

I don’t mind which one to follow. Visualizing all your pending operations in one screen (on top of others in Browse is “one screen”) seems to me as the basics of all basics. There is no simpler way to deal with your pending changes. :slight_smile:
Pamac did that, Synaptic (for debian/Ubuntu) has always done that. It’s common sense. Centralization of your pending operations.
Reinventing the wheel can have its advantages, I’m not against it. But, if I understand correctly, you’ll now need to browse through 10 different screens (9 sub-categories and the Installed tab) for trivial installation/removal of packages. Versus one before. If that’s not losing quality for no valid reasons…

Randomly, because when we users install or remove packages we pick some here and some there. I’ll install budgie-calendar-applet then think about libinput-gestures and decide that Chrome is a worse Chrome than Edge and needs to be gone, then if I want to build dash-to-dock progress towards Gnome 40 I now need sassc installed, etc… We don’t just go and install firefox, then close pamac and reopen it to remove the disappointing new cursor theme we just tried then repeat to install smplayer-themes. We do everything we think of in one go, and being able to visualize the summary of these operations seems as a logical expectation.

85% (2/14) is closing down on 100% and “almost entirely” is then a good wording. :wink:

Gnome is made by devs for devs. None of them are design specialists. And they do indeed never listen.

Oh boy, you got me started. This is bad. :smiley:
I don’t care about Gnome devs, as they don’t care about anyone else beside themselves in their bunker far from any kind of reality of their users.
To answer you, I trust 3rd party theme creators, who have a history of providing the community with a few hundreds themes more consistent and more integrated than anything adwaita could ever achieve in terms of refinements and professional look. And they did it on their spare time (Vs mostly Red Hat employees).

In general, it’s adwaita theme. This is a non issue for most other themes. The more a non Gnome app follows Gnome guidelines, the worse it usually gets in terms of theme consistency. It’s of course partly subjective, but the specific adwaita prominency inconsistency shown above is a good way to objectify the reasons why it’s bad.
Once again, I trust theme developers to correct Gnome devs mistakes on this. Among many others, Arc did an amazing job at that, becoming the de facto standard GTK theme, and Matcha is building very well on it. But it really shouldn’t try to absolutely follow adwaita (within the “burden of maintenance” trade-off of course) or it’ll lose its added value.

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Aka you actually testing things around and you are still in the learning phase of what, how, where and why you might or not need something. Not so experienced then, and that is nothing derogatory, but wouldn’t that defy the very notion of giving advice ?

Hope you never came across a doctor that when will reach 85% of the operation will say: almost cured and leave because you are almost entirely safe :wink:

And where do i see your portfolio in UX/UI design ? You know, i’m still learning myself a couple of things here and there.

I was a boy long time ago, don’t push the friendliness in the wrong direction.

And you know what “antecedent” means?

And those theme creators, if there was no “platform” to begin with, or developers you don’t care, on what would have they been showcase their themes?

I’ll say with confidence, you have no clue what you are talking about. No offense. Apple achieved a “professional” look of their OS interface only not long ago. I would have to write a book to explain, and nobody will read it, because all already know everything, and they are all professionals.

Is mostly common that is GTK+ or is Qt, or is Electron, or is JAVA, and each follow something or in some cases many things. As beautiful, for last example, the Material Design looks like, on their documentation and examples, it fails short in many regards when comes to a complete system …
Colors on themes, as long as they do not compete visually with what i’m doing, then is fine.
If everything was in rainbow colors around us, then the real rainbow will not be visible anymore.

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I’m not testing things around. I was reproducing my usual behavior in the fastest possible way for the sake of showing you how impractical the result was. I needed a few operations, which ones did not matter, so I didn’t need to spend 5 minutes on it.
I’m not on the learning phase either. Being contemptuous is not the best way to reply to users.
The lack of button contrast has been pointed out as well in other topics, this is just trivial obvious stuff I’m pointing at.

“Oh boy” is a standard expression in English, it doesn’t mean I consider you as a boy.
Wiktionary: An expression of dismay, resignation, frustration or annoyance (sarcastic).

For the rest, you’ve been rude to me since the beginning, and your reply doesn’t bring much anymore to the topic, so I won’t add fuel to the fire.

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Who’s talking about designers? There were numerous obviously regressive steps undertaken by Gnome, e.g. removing icons from desktop, removing minimize and maximize buttons from windows’ titlebars and so on. Each one was causing a sht storm every time and every time they didn’t listen. Well I understand that most good designers and developers might have gone to Apple or somewhere else but what about common sense? In particular, how about trying not to make it worse? No, they just imagined a great new look and went for it. KDE did pretty much the same and suffered accordingly. It took a lot of time for them to get their credibility again. Now they are listening to complaints and usability bugs reported. While Gnome devs still think they are / were right. Heck, look at the number of extensions Manjaro needs to make a proper Manjaro Gnome distro and how much time it took to get to the current point since the release of Gnome 40. Look at Ubuntu which couldn’t afford switching to new Gnome, and which btw didn’t want to go for Gnome for years and years. Of course, that’s because of stupid users who are not designers, true story.

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Yet you can be? How so?

Is not …

Projecting much?

You are quite disingenuous it seems.

You are.

Didn’t saw your proposals yet, care to share them?

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Nope I wasn’t. You mentioned the fact that not everyone is a designer (like anybody could claim the contrary without being declared insane).

I wasn’t involved into any non-Russian speaking Linux forums / bugtrackers / social media until this one. But I read some resources at the time and saw lots of negative feedback on the above and I saw devs’ reaction. All that fuzz with both KDE and Gnome were one of the reasons I switched to Windows / macOS btw. 3 years ago I found that Plasma devs got back on a sane route and now I am a happy Plasma user. As for Gnome… I don’t think it has any chance. Because as I said before

But sorry for this offtop which has gone quite far, I just wanted to make a salty/rofl comment in fact, sorry for that too. Peace!

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There will be always a route in any creation/design/programming process … and that route has an impact on users always. Some take it really bad, and their feedback follows. Some agree and so on. Important is not to escalate …
When making a criticism, if you go into revealing bad reactions to something, the output will be more negative from both sides. My stance might look aggressive from outside, but is not. I can justify everything in regard with design, shapes, volumes and colors, functionality too, but my limitation is that i don’t know programming, hence whatever a proposal could look fine, to not be possible to be implemented.

Do you remember the colorful icons in Adobe Photoshop and the UI they had? As a creative suite, was actually not suited for creative people. The UI was competing visually with what artists created. They needed a couple of years to realize that the best approach is to go monochromatic with the entire UI, and just give variants of dark, grey and whatever light they use now … :slight_smile:

Is fine, you do not have to apologize for anything. Discussion always been the forte of Manjaro forum since i came to it, and in spite the trend rumores that nobody here is listening to the community i’m here to demonstrate that is not so, and if i can collect all the information that is truly helpful from all this, i have a way trough my presumption to make sure those points will get where is needed. If not, then i failed and my place as Manjaro team member will be obsolete.

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You assumed I didn’t like it because it’s out of habits (which is the lazy way of dismissing valid points), and that I was on the learning phase (trying to belittle me to make a point). Yes, this is being contemptuous.

I’ve been politely pointing out things that could be improved regarding the basics (and others have pointed the button contrast issue), while you’ve been avoiding the points through the lazy assumption of habits and me being on a learning phase, or how I picked the packages, or nitpicking about words and percentages. Basically just trying to mock me so as to dismiss my points. So yeah, you have been rude, sorry. It’s probably in your interest though. So you can have my points lost among the rest and justify not to address them.
I created this topic with a view to give feedback and know if they were fundamental design reasons (mobile UI is one) or bugs. And improve it if possible, especially since the lack of button contrast is clearly an issue for people in these forums. I didn’t create it to be looked down on or have these kind of childish exchanges. So it’s a real shame.

And here I get back to the topic.

It might not be technically, that’s for sure.
But in terms of design having an immediate view of what’s installed and what’s not through good contrast (I understand now how including the mobile UI was a valid reason to trigger a change) and an easily accessible way of checking and reverting pending operations is undeniably trivial.

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You did it to yourself:

Either you have it or not? I didn’t make any presuppositions from myself about you.

You admitted doing random stuff and have no recollection what you did. So, you are testing stuff …
How i belittled you exactly ?

I COLLECT the points, if presented in a coherent way, so i can compile them …

You think i have something against words as i have against you?

Yeah, good display of nonsense!

Nobody is mocking anybody!

And i told you from the start, that was the proper way to address it:

If you took that as impolite, or that i was ironic, then …

27

Yes, the only time you said something positive is when you said it was the proper way to address these issues.

I won’t answer point by point to that last reply (and disregard how disrespectful and childish this all is) as it doesn’t bring much to the topic at hand. it’s indeed diverting attention from any interesting discussion.

There are mentions of that lack of button contrast in at least 3 different topics, so you are now aware of it. And I argued on why a way to get an easily accessible complete list of pending operations is a good practice. I don’t care much if it’s a specific tab, or on top of others, or any alternative way, really, I can change my habits in a snap, so whatever you would think is best. You have your feedback. Whether you’re willing to act on it is a different thing.
If I don’t adhere to a specific design decision but you can justify it with solid arguments, I will respect what you do out of that feedback (including nothing). For example, improving the mobile UI is a valid argument to change, even though the outcome is now in need of tweaking on the desktop. I

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And what makes you think i would change from one stance to the opposite of it? I’m not on medication …

Projecting from your part is indeed as you describe it.

The TOPIC has now two places where is discussed. Switch to the one that follows less the personal part … See how this helps the topic

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That’s enough, it’s gotten way off topic and is getting out of hand.

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