General Question About Updates

Support System Updates
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Hi, I noticed that sometimes the GUI for the package manager closes in mid update and I’m wondering what we should be doing in response. I would describe the situation as follows:

The shield icon in the KDE System Tray turns from white to red. We click on this and it brings up the package manager. So, if we click on the updates tab we see a large number of updates, sometimes hundreds, so we apply, enter our password, etc., and the update begins. At this point the window for the package manager stays open and the bottom line begins to report on the progress of the updates.

At this point something a bit disconcerting sometimes happens, the package manager window closes. If I remember this correctly, the shield icon in the tray will remain red, it will still shows the number of updates as before, and if we were to attempt to start the update again via the GUI we are informed that a process is already taking place.

I’m not sure what to do. I would like to be able to monitor the update and tell when it is complete. I’m not sure how long to wait and I’m concerned about interrupting the update.

On my spouse’s PC the package manager didn’t close, and eventually a dialog box appeared and informed us to reboot the PC. On my PC though the package manager closed, and the dialog box instructing a reboot did not appear. Eventually I decided that later in the day I should reboot.

Currently neither of us are showing any updates are available.

What are the best practices?

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My unofficial answer: Open a terminal, it’s cool and it doesn’t hide anything at all… edited to reflect @Aragorn’s comment about system upgrade first with pacman:

sudo pacman -Syu

pamac upgrade --aur

Then if you have flatpaks

flatpak upgrade

If you like those, make a one-liner:

sudo pacman -Syu && pamac upgrade --aur && flatpak upgrade

If (like me) you’re a lazy pig, then do an abbreviation:

up = sudo pacman -Syu && pamac upgrade && flatpak upgrade

In the terminal, especially at upgrade time, it’s good to do ‘mirrors’ first:

pacman-mirrors

If you have many red lines, then update those mirrors (abbreviated to ‘mup’); sudo pacman-mirrors --fasttrack --api --timeout 3

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Sometimes pamac-manager (Add/Remove Software) tends to crash, and yet the sync continues in the background; presuming it isn’t canceled or one doesn’t reboot in the meantime.

The command-line pamac-cli (Pamac) isn’t affected.

I don’t know specifically why this happens, however, I suspect it’s related to general lack of maintenance with regard software from the AUR, which should be re-built after every normal sync from Manjaro’s official repositories.

My opinion is that using another package manager for AUR is a fair workaround – for example, yay (command-line) and Octopi (GUI) – both of these are available in the Manjaro repositories.

Octopi uses yay to handle software from the AUR, so both of these packages would be needed in this scenario.

On the topic of flatpak: the command-line tool is fairly straightforward; for example, to update, it’s simply flatpak update.

There’s also another command-line tool – a script, really – called topgrade.

With yay installed, topgrade will use it for AUR. It also uses pacman for the usual sync with Manjaro repositories. It also uses the flatpak tool. It even uses “Homebrew for Linux” if one has it installed.

sudo pacman -S yay topgrade

I imagine the most attractive feature of topgrade for many users is the simplicity; it takes one command only to sync and update everything:

topgrade

Yes, that’s it – no sudo required, either (you are asked if/when your password is required). :wink:

So, there you have it… I trust this information was useful

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But remember your flatpaks… installable via pamac GUI, but not via pamac or Octopi…

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The problem you’re describing is unfortunately well known, and until pamac gets fixed, it will continue to resurface.

I would therefore recommend a different approach. :backhand_index_pointing_down:

Unlike my esteemed colleague @Ben however, I would recommend not updating the repo packages with pamac but with pacman, and to use pamac (or yay) only for updating the AUR packages. And then you can update your FlatPaks last, as @Ben described it.

Another approach, if you really do want a working graphical package manager, is to use octopi — it’s available from the repository — and to use its own notifier icon instead of the pamac notifier in the system tray.

Then, in the settings, you tell it to use yay — which is also available from the repositories — as the AUR helper, and you tell the notifier icon (via its “Options”) to check both the repositories and the AUR for outdated packages.

Unlike pamac, octopi is not a reinvention of the wheel, but simply a graphical wrapper around pacman, and it is very feature-rich. It’s also a lot more stable, and it’s qt-based, so it integrates much better with Plasma. It does however not cover Snaps or FlatPaks, so if you have any of those, then you’ll still need to update those from the command line.

Here’s a gratuitous screenshot of octopi. :wink: :backhand_index_pointing_down:

Octopi
Octopi1920×1080 221 KB

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The risk with that is that sometimes, people have had their desktop crash during an update (though it’s never affected me personally). So it’s actually safer to run it from a tty: <ctrl><alt><f3> (or , , etc).

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Thanks! I tried it out and getting an overview of things is a lot easier as is getting info. With pacman I always have trouble remembering what was named what and in which group and…

I’m aware that it’s quite possible there are easy and fast ways to get all that info on CLI, but so far, installing, removing and clearing cache have been enough for me.

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pacman -Qi <packagename>

:wink:

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I meant that I often just like to browse what’s available. Much more leasurely with a GUI… doubly so when using a big screen and having a smartphone as a touchpad from the couch.

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Had this typed already. Can’t beat the GUI for browsing, but for package management and updating..

Every time I am forced to use a GUI package manager, the first thing I do is bring up the console output. I think Ubuntu still requires 3 clicks to see what is actually going on!

I have always liked yay as it is pretty much the Arch standard for AURs. But more so, it uses practically the same command parameters as pacman. So you are not learning how to use two things. But pacman alone can be overwhelming at first to many. Heck, it still overwhelms me! But you do get used to the handy options eventually. You have already started on a couple ones.

pamac does simplify both, so if you have no interest figuring out advanced options. This is the one to use, you only need to know a few.

I want the to see the output of any errors, new pacnew files, use VerbosePkgLists in pacman.conf (and see it), and so much more. pamac will at least give you that exact same output many people want to see.

So give it to me on my terminal where I want it! :melting_face: It’s cozier here.

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Thank you everyone for your suggestions! I really appreciate the advice. I will do some reading and give your recommendations a try. :smiley:

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I do use some flatpacks…

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That’s good, but if you start using Snapd, best keep it quiet :rofl:

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I’ve just had a similar update issue with pamac, not using the GUI to update, but the pamac command, pamac update, where it said I had some 300 odd updates to go. I downloaded them and then it blew out once the upgrade started. Tried again only to be told I was locked out as ‘package manager was in use’. Normally, I’ve found the pamac command very reliable.

So I managed to unlock it and tried pacman -Syu which told me there was nothing to do. Confused, I checked with the stable update notice, just some of the important system packages, and it seems I’m up to date anyway. Otherwise my system seems fine. Also I no longer have a red shield indicator, but a little pink padlock, which I didn’t notice before, but also tells me I’m up to date, although running pacman -Suy just now, firefox was updated. So still a bit confused and will see how this plays out with the next big update.

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And this is why I do the actual installing and updating via CLI.

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good decision

as @Molski said
the console output can be seen - but it requires a few clicks in the right places
It’s not the default.

I come from Arch - familiar with pacman.
Manjaro chose to have it’s own tool.
pamac

I always fall back on what I know will always work :wink:
No - that was not quite accurate.
I do not even try the alternate.
I simply always use pacman …

… something new Manjaro users won’t even be aware about

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It’s actually safer to logout from the GUI completely, and then login via TTY to perform the sync.

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I’m not actually convinced that logging out from the GUI would make any difference. The main reason for doing the update from a TTY is so you don’t end up in a mess in the (relatively unlikely) event that the GUI crashes. But if you’re in a TTY, the GUI crashing surely won’t affect you?

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… no need to log out (of the GUI)
Just switch to a TTY and do your thing there.
Whether the GUI crashes or not is not a concern anymore then.
(GUI never crashed for me …)

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