Create single updated kernel package or branch for Stable kernel releases and mainline kernel releases, this idea doesn’t suggest removing or deprecating the Manjaro kernel manager in any way but to simplify and improve the default overall manjaro experience for new and experienced user. By having a update branch that will automatically update to the latest LTS kernel or mainline kernel Manjaro has in their repo when a update is released instead of being stuck to certain LTS or mainline kernel branch and not the latest especially with the mainline kernel releases Manjaro has which have a shortlife cycle which could end up reaching end of life without the user knowing unless they check the manjaro kernel manager.
What if the kernel branch doesn’t work for a user or they run into a issue with a newer kenrl update?
If a user did run into a problem with the latest LTS or mainline update they can easily just switch back to a specific LTS or mainline branch that last worked for them and report the issue before going back to this idea of a LTS and mainline kernel via the manjaro kernel manager.
Currently for new users who an’t computer literate or new to Linux in general have to manually switch to the newer LTS kernel and even worse for advanced users they need to keep an eye on the manjaro kernel manager to manually get the latest mainline kernel and make sure the current one they are using hasn’t gone end of life and unsupported, I believe this makes the core of Manjaro a bit clunky, by having users set to either a LTS or mainline kernel package by default it streamlines the experience with less maintenance on the user who wont have to worry about managing their kernel/s but have the option to switch to a static LTS or mainline kernel instead if they want to and easily switch back like for example for family members machines I noticed a new LTS kernel and I had to manually update all of them from kernel 5.15 LTS to 6.1 LTS. I know I didn’t have to but it would be nice if Manjaro would automatically update to the latest kernel update especially if it got to a point where the current LTS kernel they were on went end of life and broke their system or halted updates instead of automatically going to the next LTS kernel or mainline update like other Linux distros do out of the box and by design.
This proposed idea would improve Manjaro and improve upon Manjaro kernel manager.
I believe there previously was a meta package that installed the latest stable kernel release automatically. I don’t know why they discontinued it. If they could make it work, this would be a good idea for people who want the latest stable kernel.
You did not have to update from kernel 5.15 if it works for you. Kernel 5.15 is supported until the end of 2026. It could be a good idea to automatically update EOL kernels to newer branches.
We used to have linux-lts and linux-latest.
Some people used them … most newbies were just confused by them.
Though they did what you are talking about.
But I dont really see the point … nothing forces you to change kernels.
Huh?
The only thing that a user needs to do is upgrade a kernel when the one in use becomes EOL … or simply if they want to. msm-notifier does that … notifies.
Though … it did use misleading language for the longest time.
yeah no idea, it was a good idea especially for the user.
Yeah exactly but going back to the whole EOL part,a user shouldn’t have to manually manage a kernel especially if they are new and wouldn’t even understand it or know about the whole EOL thing, this should be automated in package updates and I really don’t want to have to go through families computers later on when they are end of life and call me because updates stop working
Again this should just be one package that is automatically updated
Linux-lts and linux-latest no longer exist sadly, my proposed idea is to bring them back and use them as a default especially for new users or users who don’t want to manually switch kernels especially when they are at EOL and get hit by it when updates stop working, a new user won’t understand what kernels mean or how the manager works even tho it is easy but this should be a autmated single package update like linux-lts and linux-latest was
That’s true but are you really going to expect a new user especially a new/tech illiterate person to read `msm-notifier?
The idea I am proposing will avoid any issues or confusion for uses which lessens OS maintenance low and make Manjaro user friendly, it would be more simplier if we had linux-lts and linux-latest back and as a default with a user friendly choice in manjaro kernel manager to switch between LTS (linux-lts) and mainline (Linux-latest) and than advanced option to manually pick what kernel you want like you already do in manjaro kernel manager.
I have also created some concept pictures of the graphical manjaro kernel manager and how it could look like to be both simple and advanced for everyone without any compromises.
This is what the main screen would look like, it gives a simple clean interface that shows the user what kernel they are currently using 2 button options to change the kernel banch which could switch between the linux-lts and linux-latest package and the advanced button that would take you to the current application menu that we have now showing all the LTS and mainline kernels we have on Manjaro. at the bottom we have a information box that you guys can put kernel update news.
i think this has been discussed several times previously. your idea is good, except how you see fit a new user should be handled. a new user getting latest kernel or latest-lts kernel without intervention is cool, EXCEPT when they find all of a sudden, an under-cooked kernel wrecking havoc (could be even unbootable) on a previous functional system.
IMHO intervention required to confidently upgrade to a new kernel deemed all hardware ready is far easier than, rescuing system that is botched after stepping early into new kernel still under prepared to handle all hardware combos. having said that you still have a point, since manjaro has tiered-branch system which can promote it to different branches when it is deemed ready. however with kernels, you only know they are ready for your hardware, when you see them working.
i follow from many years patches applied in stables kernels
in most case , patches from series 6.3 , 6.2 and 6.1 go also in 5.15 ( not all but almost )
on any new version kernel ( recently series 6.1 LTS /6.2 / 6.3 ) it may not works with old computers or some specifics CPU , actually trouble on version sandy / haswell or older AMD before Zen, better use 5.10 LTS, also on some Zen/Zen2 cpu amd mobile because they have frozen or hang , in this case better is 5.15 LTS
so you have better install more kernels , it just when EOL is active , in this case
==> pamac & pacman should block update if current kernel is EOL , or there is still an Kernel EOL present
I am not talking about automatically downloading kernels I am talking about having one LTS and mainline kernel package also this wouldn’t be any different from a user being updated to a newer kernel on any other distro Linux, Ubuntu, Fedora etc all follow one kernel path on one package that already does this except Manjaro, even Arch does this with the option of linux-lts and linux-latest kernel packages so why can’t Manjaro to make things a lot easier?
This shouldn’t be a issue especially if you are are on the LTS kernel, even on the mainline kernel issues wouldn’t be that common but sure it can and that is why it would be great to have a option to switch between and get the latest LTS or mainline package update. If they had any issues they can switch back to LTS or a specific LTS kernel.
And that is understandable hence why I mentioned the option to switch back to LTS or specific kernel version if this was a issue but if it isn’t having it follow one kernel package for both LTS and mainline would be so much better for Manjaro.
The subject has been raised numerous times over the years
The approach was deprecated because it creates issues for users which didn’t want to change kernel. There is absolutely no reason why Manjaro should implement something which is going to fail at some point.
One of the major diffference between Manjaro and Arch is the kernel management.
The package manager will update kernels according to installed kernel packages.
By that fact follows that new packages are not added to the system without the user’s concent.
To install a new kernel release it imples that Manjaro distribution knows what is best for your hardware which is impossible - and furthermore such action would take away the user’s choice to decide which kernel suits the user’s system best.
In contrast to upstream Arch - Manjaro will never force a new kernel release onto the user.
If any user want’s to change to another kernel release - this is a user decision - not the distribution.
Alright I understand, this was the point of my other part of my proposal where you could just go back to a certain kernel version if you wanted to tho I don’t know why anyone other than if a specific old PC was having a issue with a older kernel but I already did explain the idea that the advanced option would be and go to the current and be the best of both worlds where people who want the choice can have it if they need/want it and for people who are new or don’t need to beyond LTS or mainline kernel could use that option as well solving this issue and not force anything if they so chose to.
Having Manjaro by default have it set to a static kernel branch by default is a bad idea especially if you want to bring in new users and be user friendly to those users who don’t understand don’t need the advanced option to have to fiddle with the OS.
With my proposal this will give the OS a more streamline and user friendly while not losing the freedom of choice for advanced user, if you read through my proposal it doesn’t mention or anything about removing any freedoms or choice it only improves on the already good base and gives choice for either a simplified user experience or a advanced one instead of advanced first .
You could even add a option on the graphical installer to select a simpliefied kernel install or advanced which would continue as Manjaro is now for advanced users, obviously for me and you Advanced is what we want but for the newbies and tech literate they won’t always care and would want a simplified option and have distro maintain a kernel that it follows being LTS or mainline.
leaving it at this current state would only cause more breaks and more maintenance as new users wouldn’t know how to manually switch kernel or care to do so and just want things to work and out of the box while which was part of the point of Manjaro (to be a user friendlier and out of the box Arch based experience) and Ubuntu to be a more preset up and more out of the box Debian experience. Not to mention the maintenance for someone like me who is going to have to eventaully switch my family to newer kernel and have a lot of maintenance when 5.15 LTS is end of life, Manjaro could improve on and take advantage of making the distro more user friendlier as it’s already a fantastic distro but it really needs to be more middle ground like I explained.
I do think that you should at least move people on EOL kernels to the newer or latest LTS to avoid dead and broken system,
I’m not really sure why it’s such a big deal. The kernel manager gives you notfications when you are not on the latest kernel (not sure if by default, but it’s in the settings), from there it’s literally like 2 clicks to get the latest kernel.
For me and you sure not a problem, we like this kind of stuff but this is more of a proposal for the new users and tech literate who don’t want to do this more advanced stuff and maintenance especially for family and clients I have moved to Manjaro that won’t know/remember how to which manjaro could take advantage of to improve the user friendliness and usability for new people who don’t want the advanced options, improving Manjaro for more users and making it easier and less maintenance is the point of my proposal which will bring in more users to not only Manjaro but Linux in general
Rolling release is fine as long as they aren’t to bleeding edge and packages are checked before releasing which Manjaro does but that isn’t the issue here, it’s the way Manjaro does it’s management and updates of kernels for users. I get the whole not forcing users to a kernel and giving them options but that is only well and good for more advanced users what about the newbies? why cant we have a simple options for a traditional distro maintained kernel as thier freedom of choice like how other distros do it?
There is another big reason which has been pointed out several times in this thread.
Installing a new kernel is a big change. Most of the time it works fine, but each kernel update is a breaking change that removes some old hardware, and can change large features that may work poorly on the user’s system. Simply throwing them into a new kernel without their knowledge or consent could easily cause issues. These issues would be especially difficult to resolve given the proposed userbase of this feature: less experienced users.
yes but than I mention in my proposal that I already answered this question and reminded him that options aren’t being removed and this would again be a option as users didn’t want to be forced also mentioned it would cause issues but new users not knowing how to switch kernels the kernels at EOL and being on the wrong spectrum of advanced first instead of being easy to use at first but advanced instead. Like I already mentioned if a user was having a issue with the newest LTS for example, nothing is stopping them from switching to a specific kernel version especially if they already know that they need to use a certain kernel to begin with… nothing in my proposal implies anything is being removed or limited to only this, in the scenario if this was implemented the manual picking and choosing of kernels wouldn’t go anywhere but would be under a advanced options for people like us to use instead of following the normal kernel releases in a traditional kernel package way.
Also koshikas misinterpreted my proposal
I am not talking about the distro automatically updating kernels automatically like Ubuntu’s unattended-upgrades, I am talking about the traditional one kernel package for LTS and mainline kernel that will be updated on the manjaro repo and will show up in pamac/pacman to update like every other distro does again as a option to manaully picking and choosing kernels yourself.
This simplified option wouldn’t be really any different from getting updates like we already do on the static branch, every other distro is doing just fine like that and Ubuntu and Fedora and especially Debian have a reputation of great stability and reliability and wouldn’t cause any issues unless it was on a specific old PC and if you already know that you need to use kernel 5.15 LTS and newer kernels don’t work than obviously you wouldn’t use this option and stick with the 5.15 branch.
yeah so the kernels Manjaro would pick would be the ones they already use now like the LTS kernels for example but as a single package, Debian on the other hand does take a long time but Ubuntu or even Fedora not so much with fedora using kernel 6.2
