Proposal to streamline/simplify kernel updates and management for users

Manjaro’s latest is 6.3

True tho that is marked as experimental :slight_smile:

Oh and I know it’s only for the specific device but the Arm64 version of Manjaro like for the Raspberry pi 4 already uses one kernel package and this is way simpler but I understand that this is for specific for the device.

Man just use Ubuntu instead of Manjaro for elder and less technical people, really. This is not about distro competition in any way. Your uncle isn’t going to post “I use Manjaro btw” on a fishing forums anyway, right? If you want to sleep well just don’t make your parents struggle with rolling distros even if you consider them easy to use. Gosh my dad can’t even update his Ubuntu from time to time. And nothing bad happens. Now imagine not updating Manjaro for 8 months and finally hitting upgrade button. Issues are coming!

1 Like

There is no struggle, this is just a proposal to improve things for everyone and I already sleep well because there aren’t issues with them using it but the issue I brought up could which easily be fixed. I use and recommend Manjaro because it’s a fantastic distro to use while also being based on Arch which has access to the most software in the repo/AUR. It’s also very easy to develop and update software for using pkgbuild files, I have software I maintain and people use on the AUR and it’s just so much more convenient to use Manjaro and get all the software plus more on the AUR while Ubuntu it’s either missing, behind or force you to use flatpaks or snaps which snaps are horrible and wouldn’t recommend. Instead of having this gate keeping mentality we should be trying to make the distro better for everyone :slight_smile:

Well Manjaro is not a noob friendly distro. Using AUR is not supported and /or encouraged on a stable branch due to package names overlapping sometimes and a lag between package versions in Arch and Manjaro. If it works on your devices it doesn’t mean that’s reliable and won’t break tomorrow.
What you call gatekeeping is actually another thing: people don’t want you to think of Manjaro something it has nothing to do with. Like it being a novice-friendly and fool-proof distro. It’s not. People just warn you beforehand prior to major crash that sooner or later will happen if you continue considering Manjaro to be an alternative to unattended Windows system.
It’s cool and works ofc. When/if used by a person who maintains it regularly.

1 Like

Wait hang on a moment, did you read my proposal or any of the comments before writing this? because I think you have completely misunderstood my proposal, I never said any unattended updates and I even corrected someone else earlier who thought that when that is in fact not what I even said or proposed in my original post.

Manjaro is pretty noob friendly and my proposal was to improve one part of the distro to improve that friendliness and make Manjaro better. Yes the AUR isn’t official but I am not even talking about using the AUR for core system stuff which you should never do, I only mentioned my own desktop software like YouTube, YouTube Music and more which you can find on the AUR and my Gitlab repo or other software like multimc as another example which is harmless to install.

Well while Manjaro is based on Arch it has strayed a bit away from it with it’s own repos and slower more refined and tested updates in Manjaros repo compared to Arch being more bleeding edge and far more prone to break while being a lot more of a setup and maintain yourself distro compared to manjaro making Manjaro the more install and use/noob friendly distro. Also my sister is on the same Manjaro installation from 2018, Manjaro has defiantly improved on it’s reliability and worrying about breakage defiantly hasn’t been an issue.

Why can’t it be more noob friendly or easier to use? why are you so hostile towards the idea of a feature that wouldn’t affect you in any way?

Why do you insist then? You already had an answer you didn’t accept.

And if you read the replies to this post you would I already answered it with a better argument, it wasn’t that I “didn’t accept it” I just made a point debunking it :slight_smile:

It doesn’t matter how many times you say it and ignore what others are telling you, a rolling release Arch-based distro like Manjaro is not recommended for newbies who can’t even manage kernel versions using a simple GUI.

There are plenty of other more newbie-friendly distros that do what you want. Use one of them.

“I’m right and everyone else is wrong”.

I didn’t say they couldn’t, I was just using it as a example to something that could be improved and better and don’t have to manage kernel versions and point out how clunky the OS is by design when it comes to having to manually manage kernels by different LTS or mainline kernel branches even as a advanced user.

Don’t you want things to improve or get better?

Never said that, I am just having a conversation and making arguments against points to discus a proposition to improve Manjaro, no idea why you are so hostile over a simple idea that wouldn’t affect you in any way like I already explained to openminded who ironically wasn’t being opened minded at all.

They brought up some points on valid issues and points and I simply answered them in a constructive way on how we can fix it. If you have any other valid issues to bring up in the discussion than please add them, if not than just feel free to just read the conversation because you aren’t adding anything to the conversation and just joining in on pointless hate for a idea that doesn’t affect you at all or change anything for you.

As they say, a coin is two-sided, and this thread has brought up some interesting points of view. Another thing to take into account, no doubt, from my profane view of things, is time and ressources…notwithstanding necessary helping hands in order to impliment said proposed changes.

Exactly, it isn’t something they can be a simple flip of a switch but it could be something that could be worked on :slight_smile:

Precisely. I’m not sure how many helping hands there are actually: I’m of the opinion - and it’s only mine, of course - that they are relatively few and far between going by Unstable and Testing Branch threads I’ve peeked at over the past years, and it is not to say they are not commited, because I know full well that they are. But, there are only 24 hours in a day, and people have real life situations to add to matters.

Seems to me that 95% of manjaro users don’t realize that 95% of packages you get are exactly the same as on arch, because they are. :smiley:

Did you hear that on FOX news? If anything, I’d say manjaro has more bugs since it tries to implement various tools for noobs and when something changes upstream, it breaks here.

I just installed luks+btrfs+kde on a brand new laptop. It took me 5 minutes with archinstall.

It takes exactly the same amount of maintaining for arch or manjaro. And as long as manjaro will be using 95% of packages from arch with all the tools, package management, etc., this won’t change.

And even then, it won’t be idiot proof.

If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn’t say things like:

Because this is exactly how it is now, just the other way around. (which is far less stupid)

Oh and by the way, arch (and other arch based distros) does kernels like you want them.

Oh the world we live in. Where you have to bend every-which-way just so that some people won’t have to endure all the hardships.

What if instead those users learn how to read, think and learn before they install anything else than windows? I’m not even sure windows is for some of them.
(And I’m not saying this as a 10 or 20 year long linux user, because I’m not.)

Do you also buy a manual car and then write to manufacturer if they can make manual shifting more like automatic?


Okay, I’ve read through it completely.

The idea of @gameslayer9999 is basically:

To revive the discarded meta-packages linux-latest and linux-lts, but with a simpler GUI.

Sorry, this was discarded for a reason, as it caused problems during upgrades due to dependency issues. Meta-packages like this should be avoided.

If you really have this goal to have 2 kernels installed, which is of course recommended and to make that clear in a simplified GUI, then that should be managed by the software; means by the tool that manages the kernels. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

I am against automatically updating to the latest major or minor version. The patch version is the right approach in my opinion and that is how it is currently done.

It would be good to have an orientation. That means: 2 dropdown menus for stable and LTS (no mainline like @gameslayer9999 suggested). Then you would have in that one for 6.2 and 6.3 (Latest) and one for 4.19, 5.4, 5.10, 5.15 and 6.1.

Now what do we do about the problem of kernels going EOL? The MSM notifier is not enough, I agree. It should be checked against the kernel release feed Latest Linux Kernel Versions and be alerted early that problems will occur if you don’t switch, in which the kernel manager pops up and warns. Upgrades of this kind should always be done manually.

But what would happen now, if you have installed more than just these two kernels under Advanced? Switching from Advanced to a two kernel setup would cause all unselected kernels to be removed (ignoring them would be inconsistent).

Anyway, before going to work to simplify it, one should have a reliable method to inform users about EOL kernels. Since this is a very sensitive thing, upgrading should be blocked when an EOL kernel is detected and only after no kernels that are EOL are installed and currently running should upgrading be allowed.

Something like: “Manjaro will not allow you to upgrade because you have installed a kernel that is at the end of its life: linux44”.

But I can already hear protests, “No, we don’t want parental controls here! We are grown up people. If someone wants that, please make it optional.” Yes I understand. Then wouldn’t it be time to release a Manjaro version that includes parental controls, so you don’t do anything wrong and break it. What do you think @gameslayer9999 ?


Okay, my final attempt to explain: the feature you’re requesting is known to cause more issues than it is supposed to solve + extra maintainer work. It’s either this or that. And when the choice is like this, it doesn’t worth another try, because this has already been leaned the hard way, and nothing’s changed since that time in this regard.


Interesting. As a side note, here, I used for a while the now defunct Antegros( :cry:) which some considered to be a mere Arch-installer, hence, pretty much vanilla with a Plasma desktop. It was pretty much rock solid :+1:

linux-lts-versioned exists in the AUR.
Though … it is quite doubtful that a kernel that automatically upgrades to the latest LTS (from 5.15 to 6.1 to…) would be of much use to anyone. Some old machine that needs to stay on 5.15 wont want to use it. Someone that wants/can continually chase newer kernels is neither likely to just stick to LTS nor likely to need or even desire such automation.
To be redundant … I really struggle with the concept of ‘who is this for’… old machines, newbs, luddites, etc should not have kernel changes automated and no one else needs it … so …


I know they are but they are checked more and released at a slower release to insure they have no issues.

Sure we could but doing archinstall while easier for a advanced user isn’t something a average user who doesn’t know as much as us would do :slight_smile:

Arch is a little more involved you aren’t understanding that a average user wouldn’t know how to maintain Arch compared to Manjaro also Arch already does the linux-lts and linux-latest.

Yes if you ran into a problem you can do what I explained but you didn’t read all my replies talking about that being the case if a issue came up and could be set as a advanced option you can revert back to and this proposition isn’t removing features.

Do you install Arch and complain when you want something more like Manjaro that’s presetup because ironically here we are on a system that is the automatic of Arch being more manual