Moderator's lesson of the day: How to handle a flame war on an announcement

With only two replies of regular users (e g. non team member), i am realizing i am far to be alone to feel uncomfortable with that decision, even if Cinnamon is not a so-called official flavor.

It makes me think about freeoffice/libreoffice story.

The default should be full open-source. Vivaldi, excellent browser, no doubt about that, should stay an option (even if the source is viewable).

Then, chromium technology monoculture is a big issue.



Maybe you could read my message, or re-read it…i also said vivaldi is an excellent browser.

My point is not pros/cons vivaldi or firefox in terms of features.
It’s more than that, maybe it’s too big for you.

Open Source matters, but less with Manjaro apparently.
I talked also about monopolistic technologies… it’s like you answered a message i did not write.

So, i guess it’s good for Manjaro as a communication operation.
But in terms of reputation/consideration with open source communities, in my opinion it’s a fail.

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What a silly way to go about reporting bugs and issues, with no open bug tracker to check the status nor feasibly provide debugs, attachments, and followups.

Only developers and certain “insiders” have access to the issue tracker.

It’s been like this since their inception and it doesn’t look like it’s going to change any time soon…

I do not consider this “very transparent and open”.

Last time I checked Manjaro is based on Arch and not Fedora,

  • Manjaro provides all the benefits of the Arch operating system combined with a focus on user-friendliness and accessibility.
  • Manjaro follows Archlinux
  • Manjaro is suitable for newcomers as well as experienced Linux users. For newcomers, a user-friendly installer is provided, and the system itself is designed to work fully ‘straight out of the box’ with features including:
  • Pre-installed codecs to play multimedia files

I guess Manjaro shouldn’t offer those codecs as well, right?
What about hardware level? Intel CPUs, Management Engines and black-box chips. This is OK, right? Not proprietary at all…

Let’s take a look at Arch’s principles again, which Manjaro follows and builds on top of it:

Arch is a pragmatic distribution rather than an ideological one.

The large number of packages and build scripts in the various Arch Linux repositories offer free and open source software for those who prefer it, as well as proprietary software packages for those who embrace functionality over ideology.

Arch compared to other distributions:

  • Fedora refuses to include non-free software in official repositories due to its dedication to free software, though third-party repositories are available for such packages. Arch is more lenient in its disposition toward non-free software, leaving the discernment to the user.

:point_right: So, everything is just fine.

Back to topic, this is excellent news and congrats to everyone involved! I’ve been using Vivaldi and its an excellent browser, solid and fast, very customizable fitting Linux’s philosophy like a glove, and the company is very transparent and open in what they do. I’ve been following their blogs in which they explain a lot of things, and they are pretty anti-Google and anti-Microsoft as well:


They are not, as @winnie proved it.

Many things, which things ?
Yeah, everyone can say to be anti-google or anti-ms, that’s easy to do it on a blog, it does not cost anything.
As protonmail, it’s easy to say they respect your pricacy.

This is not transparency but only communication.
Transparency is something else.


Fake news. Post-Presto Opera and Vivaldi have nothing in common.

Fact 1:

On 12 February 2013, Opera Software announced that it would drop its own Presto layout engine in favour of WebKit as implemented by Google’s [Chrome] (Google Chrome - Wikipedia) browser, using code from the Chromium project.

Fact 2:

In January 2010, Tetzchner stepped down as Chief Executive Officer of Opera Software, but he continued to serve Opera as a strategic adviser.[6]

In June 2011, Tetzchner announced that he was leaving Opera Software over disagreements with management.

Fact 3:

In 2016, the company (Opera) changed ownership when a group of Chinese investors purchased the web browser, consumer business, and brand of Opera Software ASA.

Show me Vivaldi’s issue and bug tracker. (And please don’t give me the excuse that they need to keep it private for the sake of their users’ “safety” as they alluded to.)

I can show you Manjaro’s. I can show you Firefox’s and Chromium’s.

Show me Vivaldi’s…

I am afraid you’ll get no answer…

Sorry man, but your message is inappropriate.

Please edit your message and modify what you wrote.

All the messages i wrote in this thread are serious with respectful opinions, if you are not able to respect users who think differently as you, you should stay away from this talk-space.

I don’t attack people, but you do.


Here’s what I can show you, Search | Vivaldi Forum, you may find answers to all your questions.

For example I found this:

Actually, there is no “should”. Whatever mechanism Vivaldi chooses to use in tracking software bugs is theirs alone to decide, as is the level of public access they choose to apply, if any. The browser is free, and the terms and conditions of its development are entirely up to Vivaldi. Depending on how a bug tracker is used internally, there may be all kinds of proprietary or easily misunderstood traffic derivable from the tracker besides the bug IDs or descriptions users may be aware of. How bugs are handled, grouped, or their specific progress all contain potentially proprietary information that could be mined about the nature and pace of browser development.

Moreover, the care and feeding of user inquiries about a specific bug’s progress (or lack), the meaning of developer notes about it, and so on would all represent an added overhead burden not needed for a private bug tracker. Finally, how bugs are allocated for fixing is almost certainly affected by the internal workflow of regular development (eg: fixing a bug in a particular menu would most likely be best done while redesigning or updating that same menu in normal workflow; alternatively, it might best be handled during a general repair or revision of the entire menu scheme); until internal workflow picks up a related bug, there would appear to be no progress on the bug, and that would almost certainly lead to the same user complaints as occur when there is no public access to bug tracking.

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Try logging in.

Why should I search for the answers? You literally just copied and pasted a non-staffer’s opinion from from a 2017 forum thread that I linked to in my previous reply.


@winnie @yannssolo @tuxmanjarino

What the hell is going on?

I’m getting one flag per minute in this conversation, so I moved all of the flagged posts and all of the original posts that got flagged responses to them into this unlisted thread…

So please:

stop flaming one another and give me 7 minutes to read what this is all about!


Don’t respond until I’ve read everything!


I meant to include this as an edit to a previous post:

UPDATE: I won’t revise my posts (for the sake of transparency :wink: ) but I want to interject with this:

@tuxmanjarino I have nothing against you, nor am I upset, as contentious as these types of threads naturally evolve towards.

We’re all on the same boat here to help each other out. So I’ll stop replying on this subject, as in the end it’s up to each user what software they wish to use.

I still stand by my preferences (and what others have added) in our previous replies. I would rather see Chromium or Firefox as the default “shipped with” browsers, with other browsers available through the official repositories and AUR.

With that said, I understand this is an “announcement” thread. However, I hope the Manjaro team does not view an announcement as a mandate from its community. (You can see by the divide in this very thread.)

I shared my views on Vivaldi’s development. I’ll leave it there.


Hi Fabby,

I do not know to be honest. I was expressing my opinions related to Vivaldi on Manjaro Cinnamon, with other people, so that was fine.
But, you know, i can’t go over when one says i am trolling, especially when i made sure to be respectful and no attack against anybody, so i flagged the message accusing me for being a troll because this is insulting, in my opinion.

So, literally you dont want manjaro to have vivaldi as its default browser because it is proprietary!

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Proved nothing.

Your posts were just fine but it angered both of us because you showed that you disliked the browser because of it’s proprietary software