Dead keys problem (Spanish layout) - Manjaro with KDE Plasma

Hi everybody, I’m new with Manjaro, and searching where to land when leaving Ubuntu I was quite happy so far about this new Manjaro installation :smiley:

I’ve seen quite a few posts on this forum and elsewhere about problems with dead keys in Manjaro, alas none gave me a solution. (The default Spanish keyboard is great IMO because it allows to write in English, Spanish, Italian, French…)

Dead keys for accents were working fine, not now.
This is a 105-keys Spanish keyboard.

I have language en US and formats es AR.

For a reason which I’m going to mention below, I changed the language from US English to Spanish Argentina and back to US English.

I’ve spent almost three hours trying to get the dead keys working again, no success.

(Why did I do that: I downloaded a pdf file, in the terminal window its name appeared to be “Ficha técnica etc.pdf”, it was not being passed on correctly to evince, pdf reader, which was giving an error showing the parameter name with an escape sequence instead of the ‘é’ character, so I told to myself “let’s see what happens if instead of only the formats being set to Spanish Argentina I set the language as well to Spanish Argentina”, which didn’t solve the problem, and after getting back to my previous setup I realized that the dead keys were not working any more.)

I’ve already launched locale-gen, besides changing Manjaro and Plasma settings and rebooting a lot of times.

Current situation:

HEY dead keys ARE working HERE in Firefox, they are NOT working in LibreOffice Writer nor in Konsole (zsh terminal windows), but I could open the preformatted text zone without having to use the </> icon above here.

Content of /etc/locale.conf

LANG=en_US.UTF-8
LC_ADDRESS=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_IDENTIFICATION=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_MEASUREMENT=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_MONETARY=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_NAME=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_NUMERIC=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_PAPER=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_TELEPHONE=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_TIME=es_AR.UTF-8

Content of /locale.gen filtering out empty lines and commented out lines:

en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8
es_AR.UTF-8 UTF-8
~ > localectl
System Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8
               LC_NUMERIC=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_TIME=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_MONETARY=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_PAPER=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_NAME=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_ADDRESS=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_TELEPHONE=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_MEASUREMENT=es_AR.UTF-8
               LC_IDENTIFICATION=es_AR.UTF-8
    VC Keymap: es
   X11 Layout: es
    X11 Model: pc105
~ > locale   
LANG=en_US
LC_CTYPE="en_US"
LC_NUMERIC=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_TIME=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_COLLATE="en_US"
LC_MONETARY=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_MESSAGES="en_US"
LC_PAPER=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_NAME=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_ADDRESS=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_TELEPHONE=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_MEASUREMENT=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_IDENTIFICATION=es_AR.UTF-8
LC_ALL=

(related to the above snapshot: the image does not reflect the actual layout)

This preview reflects the actual layout of this keyboard and correctly reacts when I press the dead keys:

As mentioned above, everything works fine here in Firefox, not in LibreOffice Writer or Konsole windows (it was just fine everywhere, before):

TESTING dead keys in Firefox: áéíóú àèìòù ï ü ç []{}

WHAT AM I MISSING?

Thanks for reading and hopefully for the hints you’ll give me.

Possibly useful addendum:

  1. Dead keys not working in Telegram-desktop either.

  2. I forgot to mention something which might be useful to devs to spot a bug: searching in files under /etc I had found that these two files were still containing reference to nodeadkeys despite the fact that I had set differently via the GUI in Manjaro Settings Manager and Plasma settings, and despite having rebooted more than once:

/etc/default/keyboard
/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf

In both files, I commented out and than erased the related lines, sorry I only kept copy of /etc/default/keyboard and here it is (actually I had a snapshot but it looks as here I’m not allowed to post media any more):

# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE

# Consult the keyboard(5) manual page.

XKBMODEL="pc105"
XKBLAYOUT="es"
XKBVARIANT="nodeadkeys"
XKBOPTIONS=""

BACKSPACE="guess"

BTW, I’m missing that man page here:

~ > man keyboard  
No manual entry for keyboard
~ > man 5 keyboard
No manual entry for keyboard in section 5
~ >

Current content of /etc/default/keyboard

# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE

# Consult the keyboard(5) manual page.

XKBMODEL="pc105"
XKBLAYOUT="es"
XKBOPTIONS=""

BACKSPACE="guess"

Current content of /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf

# Written by systemd-localed(8), read by systemd-localed and Xorg. It's
# probably wise not to edit this file manually. Use localectl(1) to
# update this file.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "es"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
EndSection

Going by your thread title:

one of your pictures shows Keyboard layout
set to “default”

But there is one “No dead Keys” available. :man_shrugging:

Hi and thanks for replying.

I think you’re referring to the third picture.

That’s the default Spanish layout, which some other distros or operative systems call “Spanish - Spain”, instead of any variants like “Spanish - Latin America” or “Spanish - Dvorak”.

The default Spanish layout is actually the one which was giving me the fully functional keyboard before this problem popped up.

The 7th picture shows the actual layout I have here.

Let me point out:

I do NOT want “no dead keys”, I DO NEED the dead keys, so I can obtain the accentuated characters by combining two strokes, that’s how this layout works.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about proper spanish keyboard layout
nor about why it would have worked before, but now not anymore
which seems to be the essence of your problem.
Sorry.


ps:

I DO NEED the dead keys

“no dead keys” means to me:
all the keys are there
… no keys that don’t work …

To me that says:
I want “no dead keys” :man_shrugging:

but I may be wrong - it’s even likely

… the way I learned english is by inference - one I got consistently wrong for years was the meaning of “abundance” - which I, for the longest time, interpreted as “scarce”
exactly the opposite - but it took quite some time till I noticed my mistake … :wink:

«[…] The dead key is mechanical in origin, and “dead” means without movement. On mechanical typebar typewriters, all characters are of equal width. As a key is pressed, a metal typebar strikes the character onto an inked ribbon, transferring ink to the paper, and a mechanism is triggered which causes the paper (inserted in a carriage) to move forward one space. To use a single diacritic, such as the acute accent, with multiple foundation characters (such as á, é, í, ó, ú) the decision was made to create a new character, the acute accent or diacritic ´, which did not exist in typesetting as of that date. Due to a change in the mechanism, striking the key containing the accent did not advance the paper (the key was “dead” or non-spacing), meaning it could be followed by any character that was to appear under the acute accent, producing an overstruck character. This second key moved the paper carriage forward. […]»

Please search “wikipedia dead key”.

I’ve tried to post the link to the wikipedia page explaining how dead keys work, and I get

“An error occurred: Sorry, you can’t include links in your posts.”, so I’ve also purged all the links which fell within the quoted text (this platform is adding pain to the one given by a 3+ hours time loss, a bit earlier I got “Sorry you can’t include media”, media was a small snapshot with the content of a file, I transcribed it, I’m lucky I could include the pictures in my first post here otherwise my report would have been very incomplete).

Thank you for the history and for your explanation!
I’ll try to process it, so I’ll hopefully apply it properly in the future!

KDE/Plasma often seem to have their own way of configuring things, different and independent from “standards”.

I know nothing of it - I can’t help you - I don’t use it, except that I have it present in a VM

OK @Nachlese thank you for the good will!

I’ll await input from somebody with deep knowledge of this distribution who can figure out why it’s working fine in Firefox and not any more in the console window or Telegram desktop or LibreOffice Writer (and BTW the latter has been installed the official way, while Firefox and Telegram desktop come directly from their respective websites and haven’t been system-wide installed here, I’ve just extracted their respective trees and I’m calling each one’s executable… and that’s NOT the point apparently given that the keyboard layout works fine with Firefox and NOT with Telegram desktop).

It honestly looks like a bug to me, after having gone through settings and reboots various times.
I mean: whatever files still need to be changed should have been changed. It was fine before, I reverted those settings, it didn’t go back to being fine :frowning:

But of course I might be missing something.

[EDIT:] the symbol used for the home folder on the command line is not working either :expressionless:

The only ostensible difference here is that Firefox is gtk-based while the other applications you’ve listed are all qt-based (as is the Plasma desktop itself). qt and gtk each have their own way of accepting and processing keyboard input.

Linux doesn’t generally have issues with keyboards - but the great variety poses challenges as to select the correct variant.

Use the input text box on the keyboard configuration to deduce whether the expected result is produced.

Select the keyboard matching you expected locale and output.

Different keyboard types exist where the only difference is how to handle dead keys.

You should really go over your configuration - especially since you are using Plasma.

What symbol? The ~ is a symbol which resides on dead key - depending on your layout.

With a Danish Keyboard the symbol takes three keys alt-gr~ then release and complete with singlespace

Thanks for replying!

The only ostensible difference here is that Firefox is gtk-based while the other applications you’ve listed are all qt-based (as is the Plasma desktop itself). qt and gtk each have their own way of accepting and processing keyboard input.

How interesting.

Is there a pacman command or other command I could issue to FORCE QT into rewrite its configuration, adopting again the current global system settings of keyboard layout?

Linux doesn’t generally have issues with keyboards - but the great variety poses challenges as to select the correct variant.

No problem at all here in choosing, as I mentioned the keyboard was working perfectly fine before I switched the global language to Spanish Argentina and back to English US.

The correct layout with this keyboard is always Spanish, sometimes called Spanish - Spain, here in the Manjaro Settings Manager it’s called Spanish default, in the KDE Plasma settings it’s called Spanish period.

Use the input text box on the keyboard configuration to deduce whether the expected result is produced.

In the test area of the “Keyboard - System Settings” dialogue the dead keys are NOT working at the moment, they WERE working just fine BEFORE the problem started.

What symbol? The ~ is a symbol which resides on dead key - depending on your layout.

With a Danish Keyboard the symbol takes three keys alt-gr~ then release and complete with singlespace

Exactly that symbol. When the keyboard was working fine, I was getting it exactly the way you described.

Now I can get it by choosing the layout “Spanish (dead tilde)” but it does not require that sequence, the symbol is actually NOT a dead key despite the layout name, it appears with no need of the further singlespace (and the accents dead keys do not work anyways so that layout is not a useful workaround).

[EDIT:] “Spanish (dead tilde)” is working 100% fine here in Firefox, except that this layout name should rather be "Spanish (NO dead tilde).

THIS behavior would be the ideal one, it’s actually the one I’ve been getting for ages with “Spanish - Spain” under Ubuntu + Gnome and with Raspberry PI OS 64 with its default desktop/windows manager (sorry I can’t remember the name right now).

Testing in Firefox:

àèìòù áéíóú ü ï ê
ÀÈÌÒÙ ÁÉÍÓÚ Ü Ï Ê

and the home symbol ~ appears right away with no need for the extra space.

With this keyboard, I mean with this hardware, you don’t need the dead ~ because this layout includes the Ñ key (with/without shift => Ñ ñ). Unless of course you need to write in some language which superposes the ~ character to other characters than N/n.

/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf

Apparently, this Aug 2021 issue also mentions a necessity to manually edit that file:

(Is this a weak point in Plasma KDE + Manjaro?)

¿Have you tried the “Dead keys” option in the keyboard part of Manjaro Settings Manager? (The one where you have “Default”) You want dead keys…

Another 2021 very interesting thread:

ouch I can’t post the link on this platform (why? I’m clearly not a spammer)

Do I really need to post a picture of the URL? Oh sure I can’t embed media items either!

@admin Can I please be enabled to share URLs and pictures (just as I did in my very first post here)?

EDIT: the URL is (with no spaces) bbs DOT archlinux DOT org SLASH viewtopic.php QUESTIONMARK id=265821

¿Have you tried the “Dead keys” option in the keyboard part of Manjaro Settings Manager? (The one where you have “Default”) You want dead keys…

Thank you. Let me check that out I might have missed it.

The 3rd picture in my very first post here shows how I see the Manjaro Settings Manager, I’m not seeing any specific checkbox or radio-buttons selection about dead keys, just the layout names…

I can’t post pictures any more but I think it is still looking the same, except for the fact that at present the selected layout is “Spanish (dead tilde)” which - as discussed in my earlier post today - should rather be called “Spanish (NO dead tilde)”.

EDIT: if you are referring to the layout called “Spanish (no dead keys)” the answer is YES, I did try with it as well but that’s actually named correctly, meaning NO dead keys anywhere, in gtk apps either.

(BTW, I’ve installed gedit which must be gtk based because it’s reflecting the correct keyboard layout, so I’m able to stay in Manjaro making tests about this problem and still be using Telegram etc., although it’s a bit annoying having to switch all the time to write in gedit and then copy&paste elsewhere. On the contrary, kate must be qt based and the layout is not working with it.)

Finally some sense in the forum software.

This is not an image gallery but a technical forum - searchable and images a not search friendly by any measure.

That said - depending on whether you are using Xorg or Wayland the configurations are read from different places.

I am using Plasma and yes gedit (Gnome Editor) is GTK and Kate (KDE advanced Text Editor) is Qt based.

With Xorg you have a file /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf which to my knowledge has no effect on Wayland. Exactly where Wayland gets the keyboard from - I am not sure - never had the issue - but I think it is pulled from /etc/vconsole.conf.

This is not an image gallery but a technical forum - searchable and images a not search friendly by any measure.

That’s a limitation.
ABSENCE of images is not searchable either and does not provide any additional information.
I’m not talking about images of kitties or landscapes, I’m talking about screen snapshots of the GUI.

You would get here by searching words, then find the additional information.

The images I was able to include in my first post above here DO provide additional information. I made the effort to include them because most of the other threads I had visited, on this and other platforms, did contain screen snapshots.

And I did not post images without adding meaningful text.
Also, I shared AS TEXT anything which was sharable as such.

(I discussed the URL picture only because I was unable to include the text of one URL locating a related thread on another platform, I finally disguised the URL text.)

You could add guidelines for this forum usage, e.g.:

Please prioritize sharing text over sharing images, whenever it’s doable and it makes sense, e.g.
to share the content of a file or to share a command, and resort to images when it’s potentially useful additional information, e.g. the current state of a settings dialogue or any part of the GUI which might be meaningful to the eyes of other users.

[…] depending on whether you are using Xorg or Wayland […]

echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
x11
cat /etc/vconsole.conf                                                                                                                                                                     14s
# Written by systemd-localed(8) or systemd-firstboot(1), read by systemd-localed
# and systemd-vconsole-setup(8). Use localectl(1) to update this file.
KEYMAP=es
XKBLAYOUT=es
XKBMODEL=pc105
XKBVARIANT=deadtilde
cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf 
# Written by systemd-localed(8), read by systemd-localed and Xorg. It's
# probably wise not to edit this file manually. Use localectl(1) to
# update this file.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "es"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option "XkbVariant" "deadtilde"
EndSection

Both look fine as far as I can tell (except for the above mentioned fact that this variant name should rather be “NOdeadtilde”).

So you have a configuration which have a special configuration for X11 and another for Wayland.

That is implied by the X-variant.

I suggest you remove the xkbvariant manually for you configuration files. Then restart your system.

Please look at the excerpt from Manjaro Linux wiki Forum Rules How To Post

Do not post images or screenshots as part of your topic. The forum is a technical forum not an image gallery.

Forum Rules - Manjaro