Add user maintenance message next to downloads

Shall we add a note/link next to the ISO downloads to advise new users whether or not Manjaro is the right distribution for them, and a link to the maintenance page in the wiki?

This would solve so many problems with users not maintaining pacnews, orphans, etc.

No.

Would you read it?

Act upon it?

ā€¦it would solve zero ā€œproblemsā€

In my opinion.

grafik

8 Likes

I tend to agree that it would solve nothing.

Quite the opposite - it would be seen as elitist - I donā€™t about you - that words has a bad ring to it - something like better than the rest of us.

Perhaps this topic is better in the Member Hub?

The topic you mention is a great essay - and it works in the forum - because, here we are all equal - I donā€™t think it will work well on a company website - which for all intents and purpose - that is what manjaro.org is.

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Iā€™ve done the honours on this occasion, if you deem it appropriate. :wink:

I agree there should be links referring to maintenance, but how and where is not going to be the easiest decision.

1 Like

Nah, thereā€™s no need to move it there, although I appreciate your concern. :+1:

Thank you, thank you. :man_bowing: :man_bowing: :man_bowing:

:stuck_out_tongue:

As the author of that essay, I agree with you that it would not be a good idea to have it up there in the Download section of the Manjaro website ā€” as you say, it was written specifically for the forum.

At the same time, I also do agree with @yoel that there should be a stronger emphasis on the fact that Manjaro isnā€™t for everyone, and that it is definitely not a suitable distribution for an absolute newcomer to GNU/Linux, and especially not if said absolute newcomer comes straight from the Microsoft ecosystem.

In terms of operating system design, GNU/Linux and Microsoft Windows couldnā€™t possibly be farther removed from one another.

  • The former is an operating system that runs equally well on mainframes and supercomputers as it does on laptops and notebooks, or even devices smaller than that.

  • The latter is an operating system that started out as merely a graphical user interface on top of a single-tasking, non-networked, single-user operating system ā€” i.e. MS-DOS/PC-DOS ā€” and that was then later enhanced by way of a DOS memory extender and a cooperative multitasking scheduler. And then later still, that whole lot was essentially ported over onto a more powerful but design-wise actually incompatible kernel called NT, with as their primary directive ā€” from Bill Gates himself ā€” that the end result was not allowed to break compatibility at the API level.

By consequence, someone habituated to the Microsoft way of, not just working with a computer, but also how they perceive a computer and how a computer should behave, will have a much harder time getting to know and understand GNU/Linux than someone who has never even seen a computer from up close in their entire life.

And that leads to trouble. Many if not most of the problems we see being reported here at the forum are a direct result of what I call ā€œthe Microsoft indoctrinationā€. As such, a heads-up in one way or another for people coming from the MS-Windows world without any prior experience at all with GNU/Linux ā€” or with another UNIX, like FreeBSD/NetBSD and siblings ā€” is warranted.

But in my personal opinion, this should then be carefully embedded into the description of the Manjaro distribution on the main manjaro.org web page, not via a link to my (technically more elaborate) essay here at the forum.

In the past, weā€™ve had text up there that wrongfully depicted Manjaro as an ideal distribution for absolute beginners and for gamers, neither of which is even remotely true.

Yes, Manjaro is more user-friendly than Arch proper, and yes, you can play games on Manjaro, and we even offer ā€” via our hardware partners ā€” a dedicated Manjaro gaming console.

However, as a general-purpose UNIX platform that you can download and install yourself, Manjaro is neither aimed at beginners nor at gamers, and if weā€™re going to keep insisting that it would be, then weā€™re also going to keep on being reminded of how itā€™s not true, both because of the increase in threads from people who have no idea what theyā€™ve gotten themselves into, and because of feedback from people who will be more vocal about our perceived claims of Manjaroā€™s user-friendliness toward newbies.

The current introduction page at manjaro.org is already immensely better than what used to be there before, but in my personal opinion ā€” shared by many among you, Iā€™m sure ā€” the technical and advanced nature of Manjaro as a distribution could still be emphasized more clearly.

Just my ā‚¬0.02ā€¦ :man_shrugging:

6 Likes

Ā±R0.40 in South Africa. And hereā€™s mine:

I donā€™t think this will make such a big difference. The reason being relatively simple, and unfortunately not something that anyone other than oneself can change oneself:

An attitude of self-righteousness, entitlement and attitude.

How can it be fixed? Well, it starts with the parentsā€¦

2 Likes

Are you saying that I am self-righteous, entitled, and wielding an attitude? :confused:

Yes. We all have an attitude. Thatā€™s a fact. Whether itā€™s an attitude of humbleness, entitlement, or know-all is up to each and every one off us.

Nope. The problem is that.

You have a lifetimeā€™s experience with GNU/Linux. Iā€™m surprised you donā€™t have a bad attitude.

But Iā€™ll reword it:

not something that anyone other than oneself can change oneself

Better?

Not in the sense of how the expression ā€œhaving an attitudeā€ is commonly understood in the English language. The expression ā€œhaving an attitudeā€ implies a bad attitude.

Yes, much better, thank you.

I know. :wink:

Itā€™s one of the stupider things in the English language. Well, Afrikaans as well, so Iā€™m guessing itā€™s not the language, but the speakers. :wink:

Youā€™re welcome!

The goal we have with Manjaro Immutable to provide a version that will actually be usable by absolute beginners.

That means primarily no AUR, no updates through pacman (including no pacnew etc).

Currently Manjaro Immutable is out in a community testing release. Once we have this version ready for everybody, itā€™ll be added to the manjaro.org website. And then it would definitely make sense to describe the versions a bit with a new user ā€œwarningā€ for the regular Manjaro version.

4 Likes

Agreed; on both counts.

Instead of a link to that article, as @yoel suggests, a valid compromise might be to add a brief recommendation for new users to join the Manjaro Forum; and provide a general link (optional).

Is there an official name for it yet?

I mean, ā€œā€¦for Dummiesā€ probably isnā€™t available; and likely not overly appropriate. Something to compliment Edge would be nice.

Manjaro Static?
Manjaro boring?

I meant to use that as an example, not a suggestion to use that specific article. Although I admit, it may have appeared that way to some.

What bothers me is seeing users who were clueless about basic maintenance and panic when they end up booting to a black screen, and then tell us no one was there to tell them :man_shrugging:.

Anyhow, as @romangg mentioned, letā€™s at least see how Manjaro Immutable rolls out.

1 Like

The best minds of a popular office suite could only come up with OpenOffice Still for the LTS versionā€¦

What grinds me is the thought that Manjaro might settle for something equally unimaginative, or that it remains as Manjaro Immutable, which will mean nothing to potential users.

Itā€™s a marketing consideration.

Edgeā€¦ which is what Unstable/Stable(ish) will morph into, is great for its purposeā€¦ and itā€™s been used before in different situations; itā€™s recognisable for what it is ā€“ Living on the edge! (yay).

Immutable means nothing to anyone who hasnā€™t completed a Computer Science course of some kind.

Iā€™m not saying itā€™s easy. As I type, I canā€™t think of a perfect name, either; perhaps Intepid or Valiant, which loosely mean the same as Immutable; or, even Manjaro Balance (not on the Edge).

These are random ideas. Iā€™m certain some serious thought could produce something more workable from every perspective.

Edge sounds like microsoft has a browser spying in there somewhere.

2 Likes

I know. I know! I know!!!

Letā€™s go with the poplar trend now and

name it

Manjaro-ng

Iā€™ll let myself out.

Or even better!

Combine it with @soundofthunderā€™s edge suggestion, and

make it

Manjaro-nG

Now with more edge.

For the lords of Edge!

immutojaro

1 Like

No, no you donā€™t, not yet!

Bear witness to this obscurity...

Manjaro T-OSā€¦ :vulcan_salute:

Oh, youā€™re sharp today.

Edge is the likely name that the Unstable repo will be renamed to, apparently; so, the rolling-release would become Manjaro Edge.