Switching branches through GUI

Feedback Feature Request
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A lot of the hate for Manjaro is about it breaking due to older versions, which is likely addressing the non-ideal compatibility of the stable branch with AUR, as most people don’t even know about the other branches’ existence. Including an option for switching branches in something like the Hello menu, and explaining use cases there, would not only be safer, but help busting the myth that Manjaro always breaks when using AUR.

Stable branch and AUR off are the defaults, for a maximally stable Arch-based system. For moderate AUR usage, the testing branch would be more appropriate, I think, as dependencies would be on newer versions, and only rarely would the very latest version be required. While for AUR-heavy setups, unstable ensures maximum compatibility.

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Whilst this is true, I think just a minimal barrier to entry is quite appropriate.

If someone’s not capable or willing to press CtrlAltT and do sudo pacman-mirrors --api --set-branch testing then perhaps it’s best they stay where they are.

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Exactly. For inexperienced users - strictly stable branch, LTS kernel and no AUR.

I actually toy with the idea that AUR setting and the nonlts kernel choice should be hidden behind some kind of mini test to check if the user is knowledgeable enough to use them without problems if enabled.

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Hating on Linux software is futile and detrimental to rational thinking

If an AUR package cannot be updated because of an outdated repository dependency, AUR helpers usually fail safely with no changes made to system.
User can then choose to either continue using older AUR package until stable branch is updated, or switch branches

Manjaro Wiki - Switching Branches

Info

Manjaro specific packages downloaded and installed from the Testing branch or Unstable branch will, by nature, not have been fully tested, and may be unstable. Please refer to System Maintenance Section for important maintenance information.

One of the many features that sets Manjaro apart from other Arch-based distributions is that it uses its own dedicated software branches, rather than relying on those provided by Arch itself. In fact, to ensure continued stability and reliability, Manjaro actually uses three distinct branches:

  • Stable branch: The packages that come to stable have gone through roughly a couple of weeks testing by the users of the Unstable/Testing repos, before they get the packages. These packages are usually free of any problems.
  • Testing branch: This is the second line of defense. Being a larger number of users than those using Unstable, they refine the work done prior to them by providing feedback on the packages they recieve on updates.
  • Unstable branch: Unstable is synced several times a day with Arch package releases. Only a subset of Arch packages are modified to suit Manjaro. Those that use Unstable need to have the skills to get themselves out of trouble when they move their system to this branch. They are the Manjaro users who are most likely to need to use such skills. Due to the feedback from the users of the Unstable repo, many issues are caught and fixed at this level. Although the very latest software will be located here, using the unstable branch is usually safe but - in rare cases - may cause issues with your system!

Summing up, Manjaro packages start their lives in the unstable branch. Once they are a deemed stable, they are moved to the testing branch, where more tests will be realized to ensure the package is ready to be submitted to the stable branch.

Note on unstable branch
Remember: Manjaro specific packages such as kernels, kernel modules and Manjaro applications enter the repo on unstable branch and it is those packages which are considered unstable when they enter.

Unmodifed packages synced from Arch repo are considered stable as they have already been vetted by Archlinux Community.

Stable branch is usually only 2 weeks behind Unstable branch but updates might be delayed for up to 4 weeks if Manjaro Team is finalising a new ISO release.
Users who want the latest AUR packages should consider switching to testing or unstable branch temporarily

Manjaro Wiki - Manjaro: A Different Kind of Beast - Manjaro package repository

Stable branch

There is no solid rule indicating when Stable branch is snapped from testing. It can be anything from one to four weeks. The packages on stable branch are the default repositories used by Manjaro systems to provide updates and downloads to the general user base. The best indication will be to watch the Testing Announcement thread to follow possible issues with specific software or hardware.

Testing branch

Testing branch is snapped from unstable at irregular intervals - but usually shortly after the syncronization from Arch stable. This branch is used as a testing area for packages build by Manjaro developers such as kernels, kernel modules, nvidia graphics, software patches, Manjaro inhouse applications. The package may be subject to further checks by developers and testers for potential bugs and/or stability issues, prior to being released to the stable branch. Testing branch is for the knowledgeable user looking for a way to contribute to keep Manjaro running at it’s best.

Unstable branch

Unstable branch is synced several times daily from Arch stable and the packages from Arch repo is generally considered stable as they have been vetted by the Archlinux QA and the Archlinux community. Manjaro maintainers build kernels, kernel modules and nvidia graphic drivers from kernel source. This branch is also the entry point for Manjaro’s inhouse applications. The latest available versions of software will be located here and using the unstable branch may cause issues on your system but you are proficient, motivated and have no problem solving minor isssues on your own.

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Then how about a warning in Pamac when enabling AUR than you might wanna switch branches for better compability?

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The widespread myth about the alleged incompatibility of the AUR with Manjaro is pure absurdity spread by people who have no idea what they’re talking about.

What do we have in the AUR?
PKGBUILDs – not ready-to-use packages, but recipes for building packages. Packages are built on the target system.

The AUR is user-generated content and is in no way synchronized with the current packages in the Arch repo.

It doesn’t matter whether you’re on the stable or unstable branch. Packages are built on what’s available on the system.

But I agree that making the AUR easier for users who don’t understand what’s happening during package building doesn’t make sense.

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For the topic at hand

Switching branch is not just a change to a configuration file and not just an easy flip of a switch.

Imagine the amount of issues - when a switch is flipped - and you start a full system sync - I just wanted to switch branch - not do a full system update.

But that is what is implied by switching branch.

About incompatibility

Let me acknowledge @napcok your long experience with Arch Linux and Manjaro and the work you do the Mabox Linux distribution. You were part of this before I even knew about Manjaro.

You should know that incompatibility between Manjaro stable branch and AUR is not a myth and not an absurdity.

It is a very real issue, which should not be downplayed by such statement

That is correct - but as the content is created specifically with Arch Linux in mind, certain assumptions are implied, such as the current state of system libraries e.g. glibc. It may even be qt libraries which may be incompatible, or gnome for that matter.

And that is correct - if the packages is compiled from source, there will be no incompatibility.

The incompatibility may occur when certain system libraries on Manjaro stable branch is older than the versions in Manjaro unstable/testing branch.

One example is virtualbox-ext-oracle which only exist in AUR and is known to cause issues when the version of virtualbox in the stable repo is older than the version in unstable branch.

The same thing will happen when python version is bumped.

This is just the two most prominent examples I could pull from memory but there is likely more.

With all the changes happening with AI, where more and more users begin to experiment with it, we will see more examples of users which cannot fathom why their system misbehaves.

The fact that Manjaro testing/unstable at python 3.14 while stable is at 3.13 will cause more trouble - as it does on every iteration of python.

Electron is a framework which also tend to cause a lot of issues, e.g. AUR only specifies electron - but which one - the one in Arch repo of course - which is most likely not the same version as the one on Manjaro stable branch.

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Pamac already has a warning for AUR:

AUR is a user maintained repository so it presents potential risks and problems.
All AUR users should be familiar with the build process

ArchWiki has these warnings:

Arch User Repository - ArchWiki

Warning
AUR packages are user-produced content. These PKGBUILDs are completely unofficial and have not been thoroughly vetted. Any use of the provided files is at your own risk.

Warning
Carefully check the PKGBUILD, any .install files, and any other files in the package’s git repository for malicious or dangerous commands. If in doubt, do not build the package, and seek advice on the forums or mailing list. Malicious code has been found in packages before.

Manjaro Wiki also has warnings (but it is down at the moment)

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I know about virtualbox-ext-oracle but… we have 104 660 PKGBUILDs in AUR. How many of them are synced with anything in Arch repo… maybe few.

I’ve never had any problems with the AUR on Manjaro/Mabox for 10 years.

The fact that they sometimes need to be rebuilt is obvious to anyone who reads the documentation.

But scaring people with the idea that the AUR doesn’t work well with Manjaro is really overkill.

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anyone who reads

That is essentially the problem.
:footprints:

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I will not say we are moving towards an (AI) Idiocracy, i will just say i still see posts that start with:

Before posting, did you read the announcement her - link… This is a placeholder, write your text below this tag…

Many people are not reading what is written in their own textbox…you expect them to read something else…
Not everybody is soooo… how to put it politically correct… “smart in a special way”. But if a warning for everybody even if a bit over the top reduces the support topics in half, it is worth it. Those who want to learn will learn :grinning_face:

p.s. a very old joke that somehow feels related to the topic

A blonde is sent to space with a dog. Mission Control says, “Feed the dog and don’t touch anything.”

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Indeed … and the rest! :zany_face:

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Not ‘automatically synchronised’ for sure… but there are many AUR maintainers who don’t use Manjaro…

Case in point in 2024, Arch moved pacman forward to require libalpm.so v14

abbr purge ‘paru -Rnsuv’ failed… so I fixed this with abbr purge ‘yay -Rnsuv’ (though I do stick with pamac now for updates and installs)… so you might have some paper cuts using AUR instead of the Repo/Extras packages.

So we had to wait for Manjaro to update, but actually I just switched to yay from the repo… by this time I only used paru for purging, and generally I use pamac for everything.

It’s a huge YouTube/Reddit meme, so ‘obvious’ to all the morons - if you ask them to explain why you have a system that’s been pretty much rock solid for 9 years already (on Stable for some years, and Testing - rarely unstable) then they just start with the downvotes and links to ‘jarno.

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A Manjaro user goes to take their driving test.

The instructor says: “When I tell you to stop, you stop immediately.”

They start driving, and the instructor says: “Stop!” The Manjaro user keeps going.

The instructor yells: “Why didn’t you stop?” They reply: “I thought you meant stop later!

  • People don’t read and answer questions, they read and answer what they think you might have meant to say instead.
  • When people read, they read what they think they might like to believe.

If I tell you that ‘all redheads are insane’ you might read that 100% of redheads are insane, or that maybe a normal proportion are insane, but I had bad experiences with one or two of them.

The problem arises when applied to a technical forum… and it’s obviously much worse when taken to a Social Media context (where hardly anyone sees any issues in simply installing as many desktops as they wish to test out as they like).

It works both ways:

A Manjaro User is told: “Buy a loaf of bread, and if they have eggs, get a dozen.” They come home with twelve loaves of bread. Their friend asks: “Why so much bread?” The Manjaro User says: “They had eggs!”

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Spot on - there has been so many issues over time - because those attracted to Manjaro do not read the documentation.

Back when I learned about Manjaro, AUR was marketed as the holy grail of application troves.

I have never had any major issues myself over the past 10 years - the use of AUR eventually becomes part of the systems DNA.

No one is scaring any one - but the fact remains

  • AUR is user produced contant, use it at your own risk
  • The recipe may or may not work on Manjaro stable branch
  • Any problems you get from the recipes is yours to handled

Yet, I have seen so many issues, with members complaining that their systems is not working after an update, this or that is not working; in the end if it is not Nvidia it is an AUR package that needs rebuilding.

In fact, after a few years with Manjaro, I realised that a huge part of the issues and the negativity came from custom applications installed using recipes found on AUR.

Do you remember half a decade ago when I took heat for a topic where I pointed out the user’s responsibility?

This is not a scare - it is a simple fact - as you said…

So for those who do not care about documentation - and therefore not so obvious - do not use AUR on Manjaro stable branch.

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