Support Asian kanji culture by default

ehhen · 14 February 2024 06:11

I hope it’s about time that Manjaro would support Asian kanji culture by default. For example, in the case of Japanese, the following Adobe fonts (official package, extra) can be included from the beginning.

Of course, “noto fonts JP” is also sufficient. If the fonts shown below are included in install media, Taiwanese and Japan people will feel less uncomfortable. In other words, it’s a little uncomfortable right now.

/usr
$ fd -e otf | grep JP
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-Light.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-Heavy.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-Medium.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-SemiBold.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-ExtraLight.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-Bold.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-serif/SourceHanSerifJP-Regular.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-ExtraLight.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-Light.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-Normal.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-Bold.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-Heavy.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-Regular.otf
share/fonts/adobe-source-han-sans/SourceHanSansJP-Medium.otf **

yay adobe-source-han-sans
6 extra/adobe-source-han-sans-tw-fonts 2.004-1 (28.6 MiB 38.0 MiB)
    Adobe Source Han Sans Subset OTF - Traditional Chinese (Taiwan) OpenType/CFF fonts #台湾
5 extra/adobe-source-han-sans-otc-fonts 2.004-1 (77.1 MiB 111.8 MiB)
    Adobe Source Han Sans - Pan-CJK OpenType/CFF Collection fonts
4 extra/adobe-source-han-sans-kr-fonts 2.004-1 (21.9 MiB 31.2 MiB) #韓国
    Adobe Source Han Sans Subset OTF - Korean OpenType/CFF fonts
3 extra/adobe-source-han-sans-jp-fonts 2.004-1 (22.8 MiB 30.4 MiB) (installed)
    Adobe Source Han Sans Subset OTF - Japanese OpenType/CFF fonts #日本人
2 extra/adobe-source-han-sans-hk-fonts 2.004-1 (28.7 MiB 38.0 MiB)
    Adobe Source Han Sans Subset OTF - Traditional Chinese (Hong Kong) OpenType/CFF fonts #香港
1 extra/adobe-source-han-sans-cn-fonts 2.004-1 (41.6 MiB 55.6 MiB)
    Adobe Source Han Sans Subset OTF - Simplified Chinese OpenType/CFF fonts #中国大陸

happening with English text, ιҭ wѳuld bє lѳѳκιng sѳmєҭЋιng lικє ҭЋιs.
https://heistak.github.io/your-code-displays-japanese-wrong/

Moderator edit: In the future, please use proper formatting: [HowTo] Post command output and file content as formatted text

ehhen · 3 September 2024 22:51

August 21, 2024
KDE Plasma ISO

Recently, I installed and tested the KDE ISO on NVMe with 3 partitions.

In the installer,
Japanese fonts have certainly been installed, but the fonts (kanji) displayed are simplified Chinese.

This is a phenomenon that I have already reported as ``disgusting.‘’ I think only Japanese people would notice this.

Even if I change all fonts to Japanese fonts and start the installer, the same problem occurs.

Still, compared to what used to be “blank characters”, it’s a huge evolution. Until now, I think Japanese, Taiwanese, and Chinese people had given up on Manjaro because they couldn’t do the installation process themselves when they started the installer. Those who can install in English are different. I used to do that.

This is just my personal opinion, but since I’m not an engineer, I think I’m happy just by having the font installed.
(I have no intention of interfering with the work of the manjaro team)

Thank you for including the font. It’s a great evolution.

The manjaro Team has no ill will towards Asian KANJI languages.

although Japanese is a minor language, it is spoken by 120 million people.

Yochanan · 3 September 2024 23:48

Which? It appears you’re referring to the adobe-source-han-sans-* fonts? There are currently 6 packages in the repos:

❯ pacman -Ssq adobe-source-han-sans
adobe-source-han-sans-cn-fonts
adobe-source-han-sans-hk-fonts
adobe-source-han-sans-jp-fonts
adobe-source-han-sans-kr-fonts
adobe-source-han-sans-otc-fonts
adobe-source-han-sans-tw-fonts

I can’t find any such related Noto font package. Do you mean noto-fonts-cjk? It appears it covers Chinese, Japanese and Korean.

ehhen · 4 September 2024 06:45

The phenomenon is as shown in the picture.
The characters are Chinese.

white kate :: The character shape seems strange to Japanese people VM
black kate :: This display is correct.

I was ambiguous in my previous post. The correct font package name is noto-fonts-cjk Google Noto CJK fonts.

extra/noto-fonts-cjk 20230817-2 (188.4 MiB 298.1 MiB) 
    Google Noto CJK fonts

I think this cjk font from google is probably more common than the adobe font.

Yochanan · 4 September 2024 18:27

To be clear, there is an issue with the adobe-source-han-sans-jp-fonts, but not noto-fonts-cjk?

By the way, the full GNOME edition includes noto-fonts-cjk.

BG405 · 4 September 2024 18:45

That’s an interesting comparison. Only one matching character but if I could actually read and understand Japanese text, it looks like I might be able to interpret Chinese text too, if actually in Japanese, without too much difficulty. But I can’t, and know that is not the point.

Just of interest to me.

cscs · 4 September 2024 19:05

As far as I understand it … people dont actually consider it inter-intelligible.

But the japanese kanji script is derived from the chinese.

The whole of modern japanese writing is comprised of

kanji ( these are adapted chinese characters )
and kana (these are what many see as ‘japanese’ characters - but they are also simplified from a previous system that was also derived from chinese script)

Its probably worth noting that the way this chinese entered japanese is quite different - while the kanji is still logographic (the shapes have meanings), the kana is syllabic (the shapes mean sounds).

ehhen · 7 September 2024 19:15

ソフトウェアの日本語文字が中華フォントに侵食されていて想像以上の危機らしい「違和感すごい」 - Togetter [トゥギャッター] Japanese.

中国語フォントのバラエティ | モリサワのフォント | 株式会社モリサワ most popular font vender in Japan.

To put it simply, I think the problem I’m seeing is probably caused by fonts.conf.
$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/fontconfig/fonts.conf

The following file is normal.
I think this is the main reason why Manjaro KDE is different from other distributions and strange phenomena occur.

Comparing desktops using the installer (USB BOOT), there is no problem with ubuntu and it is normal with Endeavor OS. It is displayed correctly in ja_JP. Other OSes such as Firefox are normal.

Currently, only ManjaroKDE is not correct even when NVMe is started after installation. I think this trouble is difficult for new Manjaro users. Even I, who know how to fix it and have been using Manjaro for about 7 years, want to choose another majar distribution.

manjaro Cinnamon fonts.conf

<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM 'fonts.dtd'>
<fontconfig>

<!-- Default font (no fc-match pattern) -->
 <match>
  <edit mode="prepend" name="family">
   <string>Noto Sans</string>
  </edit>
 </match>

<!-- Default font for the ja_JP locale (no fc-match pattern) -->
 <match>
  <test compare="contains" name="lang">
   <string>ja</string>
  </test>
  <edit mode="prepend" name="family">
   <string>Noto Sans CJK JP</string>
  </edit>
 </match>

<!-- Default sans-serif font -->
 <match target="pattern">
   <test qual="any" name="family"><string>sans-serif</string></test>
   <!--<test qual="any" name="lang"><string>ja</string></test>-->
   <edit name="family" mode="prepend" binding="same"><string>Noto Sans</string>  </edit>
 </match>

<!-- Default serif fonts -->
 <match target="pattern">
   <test qual="any" name="family"><string>serif</string></test>
   <edit name="family" mode="prepend" binding="same"><string>Noto Serif</string>  </edit>
   <edit name="family" mode="append" binding="same"><string>IPAPMincho</string>  </edit>
   <edit name="family" mode="append" binding="same"><string>HanaMinA</string>  </edit>
 </match>

<!-- Default monospace fonts -->
 <match target="pattern">
   <test qual="any" name="family"><string>monospace</string></test>
   <edit name="family" mode="prepend" binding="same"><string>Inconsolatazi4</string></edit>
   <edit name="family" mode="append" binding="same"><string>IPAGothic</string></edit>
 </match>

<!-- Fallback fonts preference order -->
 <alias>
  <family>sans-serif</family>
  <prefer>
   <family>Noto Sans</family>
   <family>Open Sans</family>
   <family>Droid Sans</family>
   <family>Ubuntu</family>
   <family>Roboto</family>
   <family>NotoSansCJK</family>
   <family>Source Han Sans JP</family>
   <family>IPAPGothic</family>
   <family>VL PGothic</family>
   <family>Koruri</family>
  </prefer>
 </alias>
 <alias>
  <family>serif</family>
  <prefer>
   <family>Noto Serif</family>
   <family>Droid Serif</family>
   <family>Roboto Slab</family>
   <family>IPAPMincho</family>
  </prefer>
 </alias>
 <alias>
  <family>monospace</family>
  <prefer>
   <family>Inconsolatazi4</family>
   <family>Ubuntu Mono</family>
   <family>Droid Sans Mono</family>
   <family>Roboto Mono</family>
   <family>IPAGothic</family>
  </prefer>
 </alias>

 <dir>~/.fonts</dir>
</fontconfig>

I like Manjaro. That’s why I decided not to remain silent.

I can’t help it, but since many people are mistaken, I will write it just in case. I think it is difficult for Indo-European people to understand this problem accurately.

Taiwanese and Japanese people are the ones who are adversely affected by this series of problems.
They are called CJKV, but currently, there are only three countries that regularly use Chinese characters and can read and write them: Taiwan, Japan, and the People’s Republic of China. Vietnam hardly uses them either, and in Korea Hangul is the main language.

@Yochanan

Maybe I should try the gnome iso too and report back?

better practice noto-fonts-cjk.

I think. better. include fonts is noto-fonts-cjk.
is not adobe-source-han-sans-jp-fonts.

Yochanan · 7 September 2024 19:47

I’m glad you’re enjoying it and I appreciate your feedback.

It seems so. I’m doing my best to understand so I can make improvements.

Right. So that answers my question above.

If you wouldn’t mind to verify the fonts are appearing correctly before I make any changes.

ehhen · 8 September 2024 09:11

I tested manjaro gnome iso with VM.
it is good. no problem.

When I view the github page in firefox it is correct.
If I view the github page in firefox it looks correct.
It is displayed in the preferred JP design font.

on ISO boot.

I also have test XFCE ISO on VM.
no good.
XFCE. Viewing github pages in firefox. Not correct.

Doesn’t display with preferred JP font design.

Looks like KDE ISO.

Falling back to Chinese font.

Incorrect font design displayed in installer.

Too jerky in VM. Unrelated to this issue though.

Yochanan · 8 September 2024 17:02

I’ve added noto-fonts-cjk to all main and community edition ISO profiles. The next time ISOs are created they will be included.

BG405 · 9 September 2024 04:17

This is maybe part of the problem though, I suspect; Western text is, apparently, far more malleable with respect to readability. In fact, reading that, without my glasses, it read perfectly intelligibly although I did (visually) notice some aberrations to the usually visually-expected “font” at first (blurry) glance.

The Western-trained brain doesn’t seem to care though, just like being able to jmulbe up the ltetres in wrods and msot poelpe can still raed it jsut fnie. As long as the frist and lsat lteorts are in the rgiht palce.

Yochanan · 10 September 2024 00:43

7 posts were split to a new topic: Re: Support Asian kanji culture by default

Yochanan · 10 September 2024 00:51

@ehhen I’ve marked the solution to the topic and moved off-topic discussion elsewhere.

Please let me know if there’s anything else I can do. Again, I appreciate the time you took to provide feedback.

I wrote my own byline on the Manjaro Team page and I mean it:

Follows user feedback closely

I don’t need praise when I succeed, however please let me know when I fail.

ehhen · 11 September 2024 08:18

This may not be useful to those who are not at all interested, but it is a note script for my own testing.

check_japanese_fonts_wrong.sh

#!/bin/bash -xe

TARGET=/tmp/刃直海角骨入/刃直海角骨入.txt

mkdir -pv "/tmp/刃直海角骨入"

echo "刃直海角骨入" > "${TARGET}"
echo "https://heistak.github.io/your-code-displays-japanese-wrong/" >> "${TARGET}"


xdg-open "/tmp/刃直海角骨入" #filemanager eg, nemo nautilus caja
nano    "${TARGET}"
code    "${TARGET}"

exit
google-chrome-stable file://"${TARGET}"
# firefox  file://"${TARGET}"
# vivaldi file://"${TARGET}"
# chromium "file://"${TARGET}"

system · 14 September 2024 08:18

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