Ours works demonstrably better - to the extent that most other current solutions on other distros are close copies of what manjaro has been offering for years.
What exactly would you like to see?
(current mishaps with older systems, umbrella packages, brand new drivers, etc is not endemic)
But you forget that Manjaro has not fixed versions, but is rolling. Changes come and old scripts can be fast outdated. There have to an easy way to maintain them and. On my opinion they made it really really easy compared from what experienced in the past.
I know Ubuntu and used it. There you can just install what the gui said, you can install. But with extreme user friendly GUIs it becomes bloatware, not only windows. So in my opinion it must be well balanced. It should be easy to maintain and easy to use. But “easy” doesn’t mean it have to be fully user friendly. User friendly software needs a lot of more lines of code than a easy and smart one.
The fact is linux users are used to have manuals. Well at least the older ones. It is about understanding the OS and how it works.
What is better? Going to fishing for all or teaching other how to fish? Here we come to general question. But i leave it for now.
That is really really a bad idea in my opinion for a rolling release. What happens if the “Out of the box” function not work? Uninstall and install… just like “Winblows” and then comes “HELP, can’t install xy” The user don’t understand what went wrong and then? Having an easy tool helps a lot, but better than that: teach them how to see which problem they have. With time comes experience in basic things and new users need time to acclimate with linux.
Believe me. I was a windows user and switched to linux. i learned it the hard way and yes it was frustrating, but otherwise it was good, because i learned how my system works and when the same problem occurs i know how to fix it. I could not say the same for Windows.
However, have you considered that when the Manjaro developers release updates, they need to make sure that those updates do not break other essential functions, such as WiFi, USB, LAN, etc.
Included in those lists of tests should also be graphics capability.
Considering the number of Intel/NVIDIA hybrid laptops out there, it should just be another item to check, to make sure that all is OK.
So, no, I do not agree with your arguments – they sound more like ‘party-line’ statements.
Hey @ramjet1953, have you considered that the developers rely on the community? For this stuff there are branches like unstable and testing. If no one is reporting anything or nobody have your hardware, then it cannot be tested. Or do you think the devs should buy every exotic hardware for testing?
These are functions which are mostly baked into the kernel. And manjaro gets the kernel directly from the source. Also here: The devs rely on community testing, since it a community driven project and open source.
IMHO there is a partnership between the Community an the Manjaro organization to drive the quality of the Manjaro distribution. I myself moved from a semi used Ubuntu\Windows setup to Manjaro which I use now 98% of the time for both personal and work use. Operating systems like Pop!/OS have made the concious choice to support Optimus setups (as an essential part of the operating system).
I do feel ramjets fustration. My Thinkpad T430s Nvidia\Optimus setup has on one hand cost me the most amount of pain. Yet has also allowed me to gain substantial technical knowledge around troubleshooting Linux from both the Manjaro\Arch\EndeavourOS communities.
The bigger point I feel being made here is system dependability (imagine if Intel Graphics was equally undependable). Most end users turn their computers on and just want them to work. If Macs were as cheap as Windows machines I suspect we would see a sea of Macs (no Linux or Windows). Additionally we can see consumers increasingly moving away from desktop\laptops in favor of tablet like systems. The user experience matters. Its how we get more adopters.
So to be honest people in the community are trying their best to help, test, and report. But up to now it is not clear how things are actually tested in an organized way. I see lots of posts in the Stable branch of people completing the install but not really any notes how they tested it. If Graphics is a key system to be tested, then we should have a base line set of tests everyone is running. If we don’t have a set of base line tests after an install then there is no assurance of quality. Perhaps this is something we can work together to develop so the community can better serve as testers to make a quality product.
You may be interested in my optimus-manager guide which adds something similar what Ubuntu have, although it requires some manual meddling to set it up properly.
At the moment the guide is on the old forum. I will be porting it to this one in 1-2 weeks, but in meantime:
At the moment there is no way to integrate optimus-manager with MHWD, so this integration have to stay as a manual option. Luckily, with the 440xx and 450xx Nvidia drivers, the default hybrid setup may be OK for many users. It’s not ideal but it’s a good solution for newer hardware.
I understand what megavolt is saying about testing, however, NVIDIA Optimus video chips could hardly be considered ‘exotic’ any more than any other GPU.
I agree totally with katagoria 13.
Yes, it is great that there is a ‘partnership’ between the community and the Manjaro directors.
However, those who say that if you have a problem, you should get involved with the testing branch is unreasonable.
It’s like saying if you have a problem with your TV, you should study electrical engineering so that you can give feedback to the manufacturer of that TV.
Most people do not have the time and/or the inclination to get involved to this level.
This does NOT mean that these people should give up Manjaro, or any other distro, because they don’t want to get involved with testing.
Thanks to you kategoria 13 again, for giving me the link to the ‘How-to’ that you have created. I look forward to seeing the update that you have promised.
Could you please PM me when you have finished and posted it?