Does package installation trigger an update?

[dmt]

@linux-aarhus

but you choose to take my comment out of context - it has been repeated over and over - install using -S is OK when you know your system is current.

I felt it was a very clear and certain phrase and it contradicted your earlier posts. I didn’t mean to misquote you or to offend in any way, I apologise If I have.

@linux-aarhus

Note that if pacman -Syu does not perform the upgrade because of an error, the end result is the same as running pacman -Sy. Therefore, the error must be resolved and the upgrade operation completed as soon as possible.

Indeed, I forgot to include it in my post.

@linux-aarhus

I read your comment and I have edited the wiki page accordingly.

Definitely more accurate, looks like a nice logical set of rules.

There’s a typo, “use” should be “using”.

You may install a single package use pacman -S <pkgname>

[jamjar]

@dmt

Don’t update the local package database without also updating the system.

Some of your discussions are going over my head (at present), but it seems I should make sure to understand at least as much as the following.

1. Recommended is updating the local database and the system and installing a package with:

sudo pacman -Syu qbittorrent

or

pamac install qbittorrent

although I might as well stick with pacman as it is common to Arch and Manjaro.

2. I can get by with just installing without updating either the database or the system with:

sudo pacman -S qbittorrent

3. The thing I should not do is updating the database, not updating the system, and installing:

sudo pacman -Sy qbittorrent

Am I OK there? Thanks.

[Erim]

@jamjar

2. I can get by with just installing without updating either the database or the system with:

sudo pacman -S qbittorrent

One addition: this should be done only with a fully up-to-date systen, which means after you run:

sudo pacman -Syu

See the solution of this thread (2nd post in this thread)

[jamjar]

@Erim

One addition: this should be done only with a fully up-to-date systen, which means after you run:

sudo pacman -Syu

See the solution of this thread (2nd post in this thread)

Thanks. But that would contradict my understanding of how the conversation on the page came out.

My understanding is that, if you are not up-to-date and only run pacmac -S, then you will remain not up-to-date. But that would be no worse than you were before.

See:

@dmt

You can use pacman -S to just install what you want. It will not put you in a partial update state, unless certain commands are run.

Also see:

@linux-aarhus

@dmt

This is not required to prevent partial updates, it’s misleading:

Always ensure your system is fully up-to-date before installing software.

This is more accurate:

Don’t update the local package database without also updating the system.

I read your comment and I have edited the wiki page accordingly.

Of course, if what you mean is that one should always do what is best (which is to keep your system up-to-date), then there could be no disagreeing with that.

[linux-aarhus]

@jamjar

if you are not up-to-date and only run pacmac -S, then you will remain not up-to-date. But that would be no worse than you were before.

In such situation - if the metadata on the mirror - the database - has been updated - you would get a 404 - because your metadata is not current - which - if you don’t know what you are doing - would be confusing at best or at worst seen as an outdated mirror - which - in such situation would not be true - but nonetheless - the user would be inclined to ask in the forum - why is this mirror giving me errors when I try to install …

So please let this topic rest - let me put in that last nail

Best practise - to avoid issues and misunderstandings

• pacman -Syu
• pamac update

[jamjar]

@linux-aarhus

In such situation - if the metadata on the mirror - the database - has been updated - you would get a 404 - because your metadata is not current - which - if you don’t know what you are doing - would be confusing at best or at worst seen as an outdated mirror

In that case, it would appear you might have stuck to, “Always ensure your system is fully up-to-date before installing software,” in the WIKI instead of striking that out in favor of, “Don’t update the local package database without also updating the system.”

“Always ensure your system is fully up-to-date before installing software,” is clearly your position. I am going to do that. Thanks.

But here’s a question on when you just run pacman -S (without first updating) and don’t run into error 404.

Suppose the repository at t1 consisted of packages aa version 1, bb version 1, and cc version 1. At t2, there is an updating by which they become aa 2, bb 2, and cc 2. At t3, somebody just runs pacman -S cc. Is he going to get cc 1 or cc 2?

I am not saying I will ever do that. I just want to understand how these repos work. If anybody believes I should, I will make a separate post of the question.

[anon51566685]

@jamjar

Suppose the repository at t1 consisted of packages aa version 1, bb version 1, and cc version 1. At t2, there is an updating by which they become aa 2, bb 2, and cc 2. At t3, somebody just runs pacman -S cc. Is he going to get cc 1 or cc 2?

Read dmt’s #21 post again.

You’ll get none, since your (un-updated) local database still has cc-1.0, which doesn’t exist in the repo anymore.

Even further, if only bb-1.0 gets updated to 2.0, and cc depends on bb, you’ll get none, since bb-1.0 doesn’t exist anymore.

[jamjar]

@anon51566685

Read dmt’s #21 post again.

Aha! That is:

@dmt

The filename contains the version and pacman requests the filename, so if you get a 404 (file not found) error, then the package has been updated and you need to update to install it.

That’s a reference to the same case that linux-aarhus described as:

@linux-aarhus

if the metadata on the mirror - the database - has been updated

I understand finally. The one who runs pacmac -S pacman -S (without updating) is saying, “I feel lucky. I bet the package I want has not been updated.”

I am slow. Thank you everyone. I now understand the what to do and the why.

[dmt]

@jamjar

The one who runs pacmac -S (without updating) is saying, “I feel lucky. I bet the package I want has not been updated.”

There’s a typo, pacmac doesn’t exist.

I’d say it’s more like, “I’ll try to install it without updating, but if that doesn’t work then I’ll update”.

My reasoning is that updates can break things, so they should be done at a convenient time, ie when you have time to fix things. Everyone has their own preference.

[linux-aarhus]

This is what happens

[nix@rpi ~]$ sudo pacman -S pamac-cli
[sudo] password for nix: 
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...
warning: dependency cycle detected:
warning: mesa will be installed before its libglvnd dependency

Packages (52) adobe-source-code-pro-fonts-2.042u+1.062i+1.026vf-1  adwaita-cursors-44.0-1
              adwaita-icon-theme-44.0-1  appstream-glib-0.8.2-2  at-spi2-core-2.48.3-1  dbus-glib-0.112-3
              dconf-0.40.0-2  default-cursors-2-1  desktop-file-utils-0.26-2  git-2.41.0-1
              glib-networking-1:2.76.0-2  gsettings-desktop-schemas-44.0-1  gtk-update-icon-cache-1:4.10.4-1
              gtk3-1:3.24.38-1  hicolor-icon-theme-0.17-3  iso-codes-4.15.0-1  json-glib-1.6.6-2
              lcms2-2.15-1  libcloudproviders-0.3.1+r8+g3a229ee-1  libcolord-1.4.6-1  libepoxy-1.5.10-2
              libglvnd-1.6.0-1  libomxil-bellagio-0.9.3-4  libpamac-11.5.4-2  libproxy-0.5.2-1
              librsvg-2:2.56.1-1  libsoup3-3.4.2-1  libstemmer-2.2.0-2  libunwind-1.6.2-2
              libxcomposite-0.4.6-1  libxcursor-1.2.1-3  libxdamage-1.1.6-1  libxfixes-6.0.1-1  libxi-1.8.1-1
              libxinerama-1.1.5-1  libxkbcommon-1.5.0-1  libxrandr-1.5.3-1  libxshmfence-1.3.2-1
              libxtst-1.2.4-1  libxxf86vm-1.1.5-1  libyaml-0.2.5-2  llvm-libs-15.0.7-3
              lm_sensors-1:3.6.0.r41.g31d1f125-2  mesa-23.0.4-1  perl-error-0.17029-4  perl-mailtools-2.21-6
              perl-timedate-2.33-4  tracker3-3.5.3-1  vulkan-icd-loader-1.3.255-1  wayland-1.22.0-1
              xkeyboard-config-2.39-1  pamac-cli-11.0.0-2

Total Download Size:    75,40 MiB
Total Installed Size:  361,38 MiB

:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n] 
:: Retrieving packages...
 iso-codes-4.15.0-1-any                  2,8 MiB  1481 KiB/s 00:02 [####################################] 100%
 librsvg-2:2.56.1-1-aarch64           1854,9 KiB  2,13 MiB/s 00:01 [####################################] 100%
 adobe-source-code-pro-fonts-2.04...   857,1 KiB  1847 KiB/s 00:00 [####################################] 100%
 git-2.41.0-1-aarch64                    6,3 MiB  1828 KiB/s 00:04 [####################################] 100%
 gtk3-1:3.24.38-1-aarch64                7,1 MiB  1959 KiB/s 00:04 [####################################] 100%
 llvm-libs-15.0.7-3-aarch64             24,7 MiB  4,87 MiB/s 00:05 [####################################] 100%
 mesa-23.0.4-1-aarch64                  23,7 MiB  4,09 MiB/s 00:06 [####################################] 100%
 libpamac-11.5.4-2-aarch64.pkg.tar.zst failed to download
 Total ( 8/52)                          75,4 MiB  12,9 MiB/s 00:06 [####################################] 100%
error: failed retrieving file 'libpamac-11.5.4-2-aarch64.pkg.tar.zst' from mirror.easyname.at : The requested URL returned error: 404
warning: failed to retrieve some files
error: failed to commit transaction (unexpected error)
Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.

[jamjar]

@dmt

I’d say it’s more like, “I’ll try to install it without updating, but if that doesn’t work then I’ll update”.

My reasoning is that updates can break things, so they should be done at a convenient time, ie when you have time to fix things. Everyone has their own preference.

Got it. The choices are very clear in my mind. And not afraid of a 404 anymore. Thanks.