Discussions regarding the Manjaro 2.0 Manifesto

[Fomin90]

Maybe Everest Linux?

[Teo]

In my opinion, the next steps will be:

• Creating the e.V. from its founding members and defining some (formal or informal) management team
• Filling up with a little money, possibly from the founders, at least for legal representative
• Negotiating on the separation so that the distro mirrors forum etc. Can live on it’s own
• Recruiting a couple of influential developers
• A big PR calling for more developers and money
• Starting to fix bugs
• A big poll defining the future changes in the os
• Looking for bigger sponsors, when there is a roadmap with changes to be done, and new management, and new developers, and some noise in the media
• If that succeeds the e.V. will have the money to hire paid fulltime developers

[dennis1248]

This does very much overlap with the ideas which have been shared thus far.

My idea would be something like:

• Appeal to the community for funds, the main priority being that @Yochanan can maintain a roof over his head.
• If needed some of us can pay for stuff ourselves. For example, we may wish to move the site to a CDN so we no longer have to worry about its management. I had already offered to tie my own CC to this if needed since the costs should be manageable.
• Adding a page to the site asking for contributors by listing job and tasks which need doing. With a focus on newbies who are interested in getting their first open source contributions done. And larger one-time tasks people may wish to pick up to pad out their résumé.

[jofi]

@dennis1248

I doubt that people who donate to the project are aware this is happening, that their donations are spend on stuff not related to the project.

I donated a few times and i don’t care. It feels odd to donate to a GmbH (which speaks for having a foundation in addition) but anyway the money goes to somewhere very related to the project, at least i think so.

@dennis1248

Yet Phil completely sidelines both the community and his business partner when doing anything.

We had hoped that this route would have made everyone happy, Phil can have the company

@Aragorn

Given that @philm is obviously stalling for time — as some of us expected already — or even worse, hoping that this will all blow over, we have now decided to

Don’t you folks have any private channel to come together to talk with each other? Because

@soundofthunder

Keeping it well maintained as a distribution, well, that’s another story – that requires time and effort

well plus some money to pay the bills. As with most undertakings this requires that many folks work together successfully for quite some time.

[dennis1248]

@jofi

Don’t you folks have any private channel to come together to talk with each other? Because

Yes, but Phil is not responsive on those. He has been hiding from the team Matrix channel since the team shared their intention a few weeks ago. And even before that, people calling out these issues were usually ignored or received a non-answer.

[Olli]

@Teo

Looking for bigger sponsors,

i’m sceptical. every succesful distro like rhel or debian earns its money with b2b and enterprise-services. hoping that a distro can survive by donations had always failed in the end. this was one reason why i choose manjaro cause it earns it’s money with it-services and manjaro can stay alive as side-effect from this business. manjaro is a small player in this game but it’s alive. imho a lot of work was invested in projects that weren’t succesfull as the phone and the handheld-gameconsole while other projects as the arm-project died. an arm-based distro that can be used for commercial-iot systems would have been much more interesting to generate some license-fees especially cause it’s arch-based, an important key for hard- and softwaredeveloping.

[Aragorn]

@Olli

manjaro as brand is possible but this company is much older.

Nonsense. The Manjaro GNU/Linux distribution started off as a community project in 2011, and it was even stated back then that Manjaro would never become a commercial distribution. But then the Manjaro GmbH was created, in 2019.

In other words, the distribution is older than the company.

---

@wongs

I think that even if the father’s IT company was around for a long time, the question is whether it “owned” the distro (or certain elements thereof) from the start.

No, it didn’t. Let’s not rewrite history.

[wongs]

@Aragorn

No, it didn’t. Let’s not rewrite history.

I totally agree with you. I was just raising points to show that Olli’s statements are questionable.

[neildarlow]

Hi.

Can I urge caution here. It looks like what’s being proposed here is like what happened to Mandriva and its subsequent transition to Mageia. Could something like the Red Hat and fedora relationship be realized?

Manjaro, the company, could focus on enterprise solutions and support and the Community could concentrate on packaging, promotion of the Community effort and non-commercial user relations. Manjaro, the company, in return could assist with infrastructure costs.

This manifesto comes across, to me, as agressive and it could force a fork which, with a change of name, could be even more damaging for the distribution.

I know there’s much frustration from the contributors (as is evidenced in the commentary) but a negotaiated and structured solution which retains the involvement of all parties would be the better solution.

ATB,
Neil Darlow

[GaryGhost]

I’m just a user, Manjaro has been my favorite distro. Wherever the community goes, I will go.

I was ok with Manjaro becoming a profitable OS, but everyone thought it was strange and I felt like it was shrouded in mystery. Ethical choices have more value than money, Manjaro is no exception. All of you are who makes Manjaro, the business is just a middle man.

[Ben]

@GaryGhost

I was ok with Manjaro becoming a profitable OS

Hmmm there is still a lot of confusion here…

Can I try a summary?

Excuse me for trying to put this all together… it’s getting long and somewhat confusing/messy.

Summary

“Manjaro 2.0 Manifesto”

Summarising as best I can…this is now a formal proposal from a significant portion of the Manjaro team and community moderators to fundamentally restructure the project.

1. Why?

Declining Manjaro distribution, as well as some terrible reddit jokes… and some issues with the leader’s personality, communication skills, and the leadership strucutre. I’ve heard it said a few times over the years that whilst very bright and talented, Phil just doesn’t really have the personality for the job:

• Stagnation and Loss of Trust: The project has lost contributors and become a “laughingstock” for repeating mistakes.
• Ignored Volunteers: Team members who volunteer to fix critical issues (like expired TLS certificates) are ignored, even when they provide complete solutions.
• Misaligned Priorities: Current leadership is focused on turning Manjaro into a successful business, which the authors state has failed. The project is run as one individual’s personal fiefdom, with centralized control over access and infrastructure.
• Resource Issues: The project’s funds have run out, leading to the only full-time developer losing income. The Company (Manjaro GmbH) is accused of not investing company funds back into the project and treating the community as unpaid labour. This must be addressed as a matter of trust, no matter the truth of the pudding.

So with Manjaro, we would like to regain respect, have some solid answers to the criticisms levelled at us frequently across social media, and as such attract contributors, and provide real value to open source.

2. New Structure

A complete organizational overhaul is the only real solution here:

• 2.1. The Project Splits from the Company

  • Action: The Manjaro Project will legally split from Manjaro GmbH & Co KG.
  • New Entity: It will become a non-profit registered association (e.V.) in Germany. This directly addresses your previous question by creating a community-owned entity separate from the for-profit company.

• 2.2. The Team and Leadership

  • Flat Structure: The new association will have a flat hierarchy, not a traditional top-down leadership.
  • Collective Ownership: It will be headed by all current team members who wish to join, with each receiving equal ownership.
  • Roles, Not Rulers: Members can pick up roles (e.g., treasurer, community manager) based on interest, but are expected to respect those made responsible for specific areas.

• 2.3. Joining and Leaving the Team

  • Membership by Vote: New members can apply with two endorsers from the existing team. Their membership is then put to a vote, requiring no objections to pass.
  • Specialists: The team can also seek out specialists with relevant skills, who would only need one endorser.
  • Departure: Members can leave at any time. Removal is only possible after 12 months of no contact. A “self-suspension” option is also detailed.

• 2.4. Democratic Decision-Making

  • Voting on Impactful Decisions: Any decision with meaningful impact on the project (risk, time, cost) must be voted on.
  • Process: Any member can request a vote. Polls are open for two weeks (or four for high-impact decisions). Abstention is counted as a “yes” vote to ensure quorum.
  • Majority Rules: A simple majority passes low-impact proposals. High-impact proposals require a 70% supermajority of all members to pass.

3. The Key Relationship: Project e.V. vs. Manjaro GmbH

This section is the direct answer to the concerns raised in your previous questions.

• Downstream Company: The Manjaro GmbH will effectively become a downstream of the new non-profit e.V. The e.V.'s primary work is for the community and the distribution.
• Trademark Licensing (Crucial Point):
  • The GmbH will give the e.V. an exhaustive license to use the “Manjaro” trademark until the end of 2029.
  • The GmbH retains the right to use the trademark for its own products, as long as it doesn’t cause confusion.
  • After 2029, the GmbH declares its willingness to yield the trademark to the e.V. for the price of one Euro. This directly addresses the core of your question: the brand would ultimately be transferred to the community-run non-profit.

4. Assets and Infrastructure

The manifesto details a clear transfer of project assets to the new e.V.:

• Handover of Project Assets: Everything for which the Manjaro Project is the primary user will be handed over. This includes:
  • GitHub organizations (Manjaro Linux, Kernels, ARM).
  • Self-hosted GitLab and all repositories.
  • The manjaro.org domain.
  • The forum, CDN, cloud accounts (e.g., Hetzner), and community finances (e.g., OpenCollective).
• Continued Company Use: The GmbH may continue using the e.V.'s infrastructure (like the CDN and *.manjaro.org subdomains) but must:
  • Actively work to migrate to its own infrastructure.
  • Fully compensate the e.V. for all usage costs (storage, bandwidth, admin time), likely via a recurring cash payment.
  • The e.V. does not guarantee shared services and may change or remove them following a vote.

5. Escalation Plan: “Our Resolve”

The authors conclude with a three-stage plan if their proposals are ignored by the current leadership:

• Stage 0: Await a reply for a reasonable time.
• Stage 1: Publicly release this document and commence a general strike (pausing nonessential efforts).
• Stage 2: Consider forking and/or leaving the Manjaro Project entirely.

The document is signed by 18 individuals, including developers, community managers, moderators, assistants, and notably, Roman Gilg, the CTO of the Manjaro Company. This high-level support indicates the proposal represents a significant internal faction.

My initial reaction to this distribution was a feeling that Phil is a fantastic and talented guy…

But he’s a NERD, and perhaps the personality of the leader is not compatible with also taking the role of leader…

So there arise conflicts… the leader makes a perfectly reasonable decision, and people on the Team think it’s ok too - but does it in his own way ‘just do it, I can’t be bothered…’ and because everyone’s mostly kind of ‘ok’ with the decision (nothing wrong) then it gets done.

This caused huge splits in the past. It remains a dangerous sharp rock under the surface of our desktop to this day…

Many very valuable people went their merry way and the cost was actually pretty high.

Manjaro remains unique, but it is not (and never was) for profit…

When you see links and advertisements for laptops/hardware, those are not part of the Distribution… and the Distribution must be separated to avoid the muddy waters, because the job wasn’t done properly back in 2019.

[dennis1248]

If I recall correctly, the company was founded as to have a legal entity which could receive donations from an individual who made significant monetary contributions to open source. Before this there was no company.

@GaryGhost

I was ok with Manjaro becoming a profitable OS

And so are we, it would be lovely if Manjaro was self sufficient, we even tried to make this happen but Phil fought it at every turn and just did his own thing.

[Randomname123]

It’s very clear from what everyone has written here that the Manjaro project as it currently stands is reaching a dead end (that was years in the making for various reasons) the team members, community and one of the project’s co-owners have all expressed valid concerns and it is quite apparent that many attempts were made in the past to reconcile differences and sadly it did not work out. It’s not to blame any single person or individual. It just didn’t work out in it’s current structure whatever that may be and that’s the truth of it.

No one is forcing anything. If the people here did not care about the Manjaro project as a whole, they would not have stayed and voiced their concerns, they would not have bothered to do anything at all about it and could have simply just left like many others did in the past without saying a single word.

The project seems to have reached a dead end financially, manpower wise and reputation wise. This is one final attempt to save the project and it’s name which holds sentimental and historical value to it’s members, be they the community or the team who keeps Manjaro running and functioning.

The upside is that since this is a Linux distribution, it is freely distributed and it’s continued existence and growth and improvement will be beneficial to everyone including the current/previous and future owners.

Since anyone could have left at “any time” and forked the project or just gone and done something different, the people that stayed until the end to try and save this one last time have my respect and my gratitude.

Again, this is not about blaming anyone, this is about finding a new home for a collaborative project that is dear to many people and has served them well in the past years… this is a look toward a sustainable and long lasting future in a way that works better than the current setup.

[BG405]

@Ben

The centralized access that prevents others from fixing things

This seems to be the primary issue.

@Ben

It’s not just Phil’s baby, it’s our baby, it’s my baby.

[Teo]

Actually, a rebranding in 29 under the new management structure might not be a bad idea…i am ambivalent on this.

@Ben

the house is burning down, and Phil is the one person with the only key - and he’s not opening the door.

Spot on. Just give other people the key, we’ll go out, fetch some water and maybe save the house.

I also like the baby metaphor. It is his baby. But the baby is now 18, wants to get out of the house and study for an become a painter instead of an engineer as his father expects. What would a sensible parent do? Let go of his control and still support the kid, tell it to hit the road without a penny and that it will not become inheritance, or just take a pistol and shoot the kid?

[wntr]

It already became a scrap when this went public.
And if the split is truly 50%-50% in all aspects, continuing it will burn the project to the ground.

From the manifesto, as nice as it is trying to sound, for me the overly aggressive approach with the demands speaks louder, this is a coup demanding an unconditional surrender.
Nobody sane would agree to this.

In open-source this would be the exact time where people split and the project gets forked, and historically it would result in a better product.
Yet the battle for the infrastructure and the brand leads me to thinking this is more about the assets than the distro, a tell that you have no funding or believe to have no reach otherwise.

My read on this is that the best move would either be trying to reconcile this and come to a deal that is equally acceptable to both sides and doing your best to ignore the bad blood, or split clean.
Otherwise, this will only result in loss of credibility for both sides, and it will become a public and possibly legal battle about who gets to be king of the pile of ash.

[Teo]

@wntr

My read on this is that the best move would either be trying to reconcile this and come to a deal that is equally acceptable to both sides and doing your best to ignore the bad blood, or split clean.

I thing that’s what’s happening right now. Where it goes - we will see in a couple of weeks.

If it comes to a fork (with no resources at all) it will probably be better to leave the concept of “curated” repos because this is what needs a lot of manpower and go the EOS approach with just some tools over arch.
But let’s not think about this at the moment and still have hope for sanity to win

[BG405]

@Ben

Now the Primary issue you’re confused… because keeping the doors locked is great, but nto ‘every hintz and kuntz’ has access - only the Community which is made up of the people who manage Manjaro (Community) e.V.

Exactly. You explained what I actually meant.

[thelion]

This whole discussion worries me very much. What does this mean for end-users like me? Should I possibly look for an alternative OS? If so, what could you recommend to me? I tried Opensuse tumbleweed KDE on a laptop - was not a good experience. Manjaro is and has been so stable on my computers. It would be a shame if this project would die.

[Teo]

@thelion

What does this mean for end-users like me?

Wait a bit more. The patient is in coma for at least a couple of years, in the next months it will either wake up or die and you will have the answer.