Can Manjaro replicate the utility of Knoppix persistent?

rajibando · 23 May 2023 08:19

This follows the advice of Mr. Morn on the thread [I plan to switch to Archlinux from Debian] on the archlinux forums, the viewtopic id is 285915.

I was suggested Manjaro instead of Arch direct as I lamented on the gradual demise of Knoppix, based on the continuously reducing vibracy of Knoppix user forums.

I shortly ago posted another topic on Manjaro on Arch forum, but the topic was closed with the suggestion that (1) the forum is not a Manjaro support forum. You should ask there. Just because a distro is “based” on Arch doesn’t mean it is the same thing, and if you want to know nitty gritty of the distro in question, then their own user base is the best to ask and (2) planning to switch to Arch Linux and discussing the merits and differences of Arch Linux compared to Debian is fine, but questions related to other distributions are rather opened at their respective communities.

I agree to what was suggested. So I have arrived here, as I now plan to switch to Manjaro from Debian.

I should elaborate by heaping my eulogy for Knoppix. I used knoppix as a DVD iso extracted on the HDD. The one single binary file has the OS and all the popular packages installed within. I had another dedicated ext4 partition to use as persistent, which essentially means continuing with the changes made in the last session till shutdown.

The beauty of this arrangement emerges from the scenario that fresh packages can still be installed to further customise Knoppix to my need on the ext4 partition, while the base system remains as the binary image, as it was.

Can Manjaro emulate this aspect of the beauty of Knoppix?

I want to move away from Debian direct, and I am trying to learn the various aspects of other available possibilities in Linux.

varikonniemi · 23 May 2023 08:31

what is your need for something that works like that? From your description knoppix needs 2 partitions, one for the immutable image, and one for an overlay filesystem. Manjaro can be used with one partition, so it is simpler and seems to provide same functionality you mentioned, namely being able to customize it.

rajibando · 23 May 2023 08:41

Thank you for replying to my query. Knoppix is already a ready environment, a Live ISO, to be booted and used. The other partition is for adding and altering packages and for user files.

I can’t express my comfort level with the arrangement enough. I didn’t have to set up the system. Everything is pre-installed. I just used the installed Debian as the first system and then switched to Knoppix via its own boot menu. I could add drivers for some specialised components in my laptop, like GPU card, scanner when plugged in, etc.

I rarely used Debian earlier. But as Knoppix is gradually fading away, I am compelled to use Debian for the time being. I am not competent to handle every aspect by myself. I am not a computer software professional.

varikonniemi · 23 May 2023 08:50

To answer your question, ~~i believe manjaro does not support persistence in it’s live environment so what you want is not possible.~~ official manjaro live environment does not support it, but it is possible to build one by yourself that supports it, see few posts below.

To be honest it sounds like a handicapped way to use an operating system, so no wonder the project is dying. If you want something like that i suggest you try ubuntu, it supports persistence with the live usb. There is some limited use cases where it is a nice feature to have, but you are the first one i hear that prefers to use it as their main operating system.

xabbu · 23 May 2023 08:55

No.

Manjaro is a rolling Release Distribution. This works completely different to way you know form Debian.

For example, you can’t install new software packages without doing a complete upgrade of every package. Before you install new packages you need to update, there are no exceptions. So a static base image is completely pointless.

varikonniemi · 23 May 2023 08:59

Maybe your confusion comes from thinkin manjaro is like arch in that you set it up and maintain manually yourself? That’s wrong, it comes already configured with many default applications, enough that you never need to install anything for typical light office use. And maintenance is like 99% automatic.

Aragorn · 23 May 2023 09:16

Ah, but it is possible…

But as you say…

Indeed, I agree, and it would only be usable for a short time, given the rolling-release nature of Manjaro.

varikonniemi · 23 May 2023 09:24

very nice, seems like i had commented in that thread and simply forgot about this feature. Becasue i did not understand need for it it back then, nor do i now

cscs · 23 May 2023 09:29

Huh?
The idea would be its persistent - hence updateable.

Aragorn · 23 May 2023 09:34

You cannot infinitely keep on updating software on a USB stick, because they don’t support TRIM.

cscs · 23 May 2023 09:35

Maybe not infinitely … but well enough to use throughout a year or more.
I’ve certainly done so with distros like ‘puppy’.

6x12 · 23 May 2023 09:55

There are some nice ones that do, like LacieFastkey, Samsung T5:

rajibando · 23 May 2023 09:59

For children, a protecitve enrivonment is beneficial. In the matters of computing, I will always be a child, forever learning to use it for my own specific purpose. I won’t be a programmer or a specialist of Software Appliations. My priorities are different.

Please, your comment is being perceived as a slander to the creators and maintainers of Knoppix. It is dying simply because some of the senior-most members are very elderly and no longer that active. I enjoyed Knoppix from 2007 to Jan 2023. In the ephemeral world of computing isn’t this a long enough time, weaning me away from the restrictive environment of Doze?

But yes, your spirit is understood. Especially, from your comments,

and

Now that is encouraging!

And yes, quoting cscs:

Yes.

Yes, but Knoppix is far more empowered than the restricted puppy.

So my other set of questions would be:
How long has Manjaro been active?
When was it designed?
Any indications/links would be welcome.

Aragorn · 23 May 2023 10:08

rajibando · 23 May 2023 10:14

Thank you, Aragorn. So I am assuming that Manjaro will last for some time. I am warming up to installing Manjaro. Arch was a serious put off for me.
I have a partition empty, so I could use it. A link to the installation guide would also be welcome.

Aragorn · 23 May 2023 10:31

Manjaro Wiki

By the way, you can find the link to the Wiki at the bottom of every forum page.

Be sure to also regularly visit the forum and subscribe to notifications for the Stable Updates category. Every major update always comes with a dedicated announcement thread, which will also highlight the potential gotchas and how to work around them.

In addition to that, the forum also has a by now already substantial collection of community-submitted Tutorials.

And if you then still have any questions, then there’s also this…

Always do a search first before posting. Many (if not most) people do not, with as a result that we get loads of duplicate threads from different people about the same thing, and then we’re constantly having to point people at the same solution — one that quite often can be found on the pertinent Stable Updates thread, which they (of course) didn’t read.

rajibando · 23 May 2023 11:31

Ok. Thank you very much for all that information! Now of all the ISOs, which Distro has the most exhaustive menu-submenu in its panel, so that every GUI application/program is found on the list?

Moreover, I also want a Distro which allows custom Menu-items on the menu-list and also in the right-click drop-down menu-list.

Further, I desire the Menu List to be completely customisable, in the sense that I should be free to add menu-items, if required, by hand, linking scripts and commands, especially with adding menu-items on the Menu list accessible by right clicking on a free area on the desktop outside of a program window, so that the said command/script could be launched then itself from there.

OpenBox is no longer in active development. The Mailing list isn’t vibrant. I can’t add customised menus. There isn’t support which I require very much.

I am wary. Suppose I begin with OpenBox WM and have a menu. Later I learn that I can use a better WM. But the trouble is that the Menu created during installation is the most comprehensive. Later on, new WM addition doesn’t properly port all the menu-items from older to newer.

I prefer a LXDE (or Doze) type Menu like Start Menu ⟶ Program Categories ⟶ Program Link with every link on the list, or allow me to include those that aren’t listed.

Any suggestion based on these two aspects would be welcome.

varikonniemi · 23 May 2023 11:47

dude, i was only giving my impression based on what you told me about knoppix. It could not be considered slander if i say i don’t see any use for a distro like that. Or that it’s development has stalled as the creators stop and new ones don’t take over because other developers might have similar opinion as i.

To your last post: you seem to put emphasis on the right click menu, so while many if not most DE:s support editing it, there is one that is almost designed around a workflow around it: enlightenment.

Aragorn · 23 May 2023 11:52

All of them.

Each of the three official Manjaro editions comes preinstalled with all of the necessary tools and software titles. And if you need something that isn’t part of the freshly installed system by default, then you simply pull it in from the official repositories. It will then automatically be added to the chosen desktop environment’s main menu.

In addition to this, there might be software that you like but that isn’t in the official repositories — or at least, not yet — but then chances are huge that you can install it from the AUR, albeit that you have to keep in mind that the AUR is not officially supported and that Manjaro can as such not guarantee that anything installed from there will work, or that the uploader is to be trusted — unless the uploader of that particular AUR package also happens to be one of the Manjaro team members, of course. More information about the use of the AUR can be found in the Wiki.

On top of that, Manjaro also provides you with the necessary tools for installing and running Snaps, FlatPaks and AppImages.

I have no idea what you’re talking about here, sorry.

I don’t see why that would be impossible in any of the Manjaro editions when it’s also possible in other distributions. And as the matter of fact, it is possible, and especially so in the Plasma edition, because that’s what I myself use and therefore have the most experience with.

The Manjaro OpenBox edition is a community edition, and its maintainer is @linux-aarhus, who is an active contributor to the forum — he has already contributed many more tutorials and HowTos to the Tutorials section of the forum than anyone else here.

@linux-aarhus has only just released a new LXQt spin .iso today.

LXQt is very MS-Windows-like in look & feel — it is a version of LXDE that uses the qt widget libraries instead of gtk, and it includes many components from KDE Plasma, such as the kwin compositing window manager.

rajibando · 23 May 2023 13:00

Thank you for engaging with me, Mr. varikonniemi and Mr. Aragorn. Please remember that you are engaging with a perpetual novice. So I would request your tolerance and patience and offer apologies in advance.

Please Sir, no rhetorical sentences and generalised statements would help me. Moreover, I don’t know enlightenment.

No. I emphasised on my requirement of having the ability to add any arbitrary menu-item to the menu-list with link to a custom script/command. Especially, on the Right-click Drop-down menu-list, including sub-menus.

May the rest of my earlier statements to you, Mr. varikonniemi, be ignored. I too have.

May please my rest post be perused. Very essential for me.

This section appears to impart an impression to me that I have not been able to explain my need emphatically or clearly enough.

I was not talking about all necessary tools and software titles. I talked about comprehensive listing of all applications/programs that is included during installation be faithfully reflected on the Start Menu ⟶ Program Categories ⟶ Program Link, with every links to every programs installed in the system, on the list, or allow me to include those that aren’t listed. In menu, sub-menu, sub-sub-menu, and so on … . A comprehensive list missing out nothing.

As I wrote the above to Mr. Aragorn, I talked about my having the ability to add any arbitrary menu-item to the menu-list with link to a custom script/command. Especially, on the Right-click Drop-down menu-list, including sub-menus.

Sir, I didn’t say LXDE. I said “like” LXDE or Doze (I meant the old winXP or WinVista type), i.e, Start Menu ⟶ Program Categories (i.e., sub-menu and further sub-sub-menu) ⟶ Program Link with every link on the list, or allow me to include those that aren’t listed. With Full Flexibility. Maximum Rights.

I am Not At All particularly interested in LXDE, LXDE-type, Doze or Doze-type interface. I mentioned them only as examples. I am interested in a generalised fully flexible and comprehensive Menu-based program-links with a starting point (like the Start Menu ⟶ Program etc.) wherein I could add my own customised scripts and commands.

The Original LXDE is now as good as dead. The OpenBox WM is as good as dead. May be I am jinxed. The ones which I touch go dead. So be it. I would like a vibrant environment, any of the Manjaro projects, the one which is the most vibrant. With (I repeat) Start Menu ⟶ Program Categories (i.e., sub-menu and further sub-sub-menu) ⟶ Program Link with every link on the list, or allow me to include those that aren’t listed.

In the end, are all of these distros Live? Can be booted and run from the ISO directly? Then I could have a real ‘feel’ of some of them.