[XFCE RC5] Isn't that beautiful?

I've never even heard of that one. I'm downloading it now to try it out. Not that I'm planning to move but it's better to have a backup and not need it than need it and not have one.

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It's good. Another to check out if you like is ArchLabs.

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I did it a few days ago, still have some machines that need to be "purified" ... and no need to remind everyone that you run it :slight_smile:

Came for Manjaro, staying for the nice forum. We might even request a "Arch Discussion" category should our numbers increase even more :joy::rofl:

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I have Namib in a VM. It's nice. I guess the person(s) forked a bunch of Manjaro's toolset? Apparently though, he's making his own and nuking them at some point. I think...
Their forums are :coffin:.
I also just got running in VM ArchDeepin, DeepPlasma, and EndeavourOS. I'll have to take a look at ArchLabs too.
ArcoLinux has the most annoying website ever IMHO

I agree with @MyNameIsRichardCS54. Hope for the best, prepare for the worsterest. :wink:


It's interesting to see how this is progressing. I haven't been here that long but it's not hard to see the wind blowing in a direction I might not be prepared to endure.
I'm a little boggled though on the fact that snaps and flatpaks are default, yet at some point pacman is going to be removed. I know it's a small thing but to me it speaks to the direction Manjaro might be going.
I fully expect when Canonical starts its hard Snap push once the pieces are in place. Flatpaks will be removed.

This whole package manager mess is obviously a transitional phase to whatever Phil has in mind.
I truly mean no disrespect but whatever that direction is, it's not being communicated very well to the users. I know there's a language barrier and it can be hard to get what Phil is saying exactly sometimes. For me however, the intent seems to be clear.
Canonical and Phil's goals for snap seem to be inline.
I guess we'll have to wait to see what those goals end up being, because they sure aren't being communicated to us users very well, if at all.

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The way I "smell it" - Canonical found themselves some guinea pigs for the snap future.

What made Manjaro great IMO: Community, Arch, installation process and gui system maintenance


And I used to install Manjaro for friends and family. -> "look, its so easy open pamac and boom installed"
Now there is multiple platforms for software installation that all have the same purpose :clown_face:

Its confusing the average user who doesn't care about linux just to satisfy some people called "newbies"

GG

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I was nodding the whole time I read that. :wink:
I honestly try not to speculate on Phil's "vision" for Manjaro. But it's getting very hard not to make some basic assumptions and interestingly enough, from what I've read, Canonical is one of the companies that can't seem to get that when you don't communicate things or do it badly, leaving the users to make assumptions, it does not go well. (wow, that's a lot of commas)


I'm hardly a Dev. Heck, I barely know shell stuff being just a "newbie" myself. Still learning.
But a saner approach to this mess would be:

  • Dump Octopi. Leave it out of release ISOs. If someone wants it, let them get it from the repos.
  • Since there's a real focus on varies flavors of pamac focus on that. Make it awesome.
  • Leave Pacman alone.
  • Pick a GUI for Snaps and flatpaks. Quite faffing around with so many. eq. put focus into Fpakman and forget about Gnome/Discover-snap. Leave them in the repos but leave them out of the releases.

Granted, I know nothing about packaging a release. Perhaps there's some technical issue doing that but the source code is right there to hack on. :woman_shrugging:

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just use the other os category alllllllll the way at the bottom of the forum page :rofl:

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I moved on to pure Arch at the beginning of the month, and nuked Manjaro-it took 7 'shots' with my little 'Russian Roulette' command. :slight_smile:

I don't like the direction Manjaro is heading with Canonical, and I don't want to be an unpaid 'guinea pig'; this also means that my participation in troubleshooting threads will be minimal to non-existent.

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Honestly, those of you are thinking of jumping ship, I would seriously recommend giving vanilla Arch a shot if you haven't tried.

The install is legendary for its difficulty, yes. But trust me, once you get the graphical env setup, the hard part, other than system maintenance, is pretty much over.

Plus, there are plenty of tutorials posted within the years on youtube designed for new users, though you have to dig for proper UEFI installation instructions (4-5 extra steps needed).

Granted, Arch isn't for everyone. Having something like Manjaro gives a great deal of convenience. But with that. . .comes a little less control over options (though, honestly, linux is already easy to configure anyway -- depending on distro -- so even if using a more convenient distro, you CAN still change a lot. E.g. probably SOME way you could remove flatpaks/snaps if you wish. Which actually makes distro-hopping to Arch a little redundant, haha!). Though Arch is just like any other Distro in the sense that it has a development team calling most of the shots, and made some decisions people have qualms with -- i.e. systemd and drop of i686 support (not too fazed on, personally) -- they do seem to, well, idk, not make too many decisions that piss majority of users off. Target audience maybe?

But yeah, would encourage you give it a try. Daily driver material? Well, takes a bit to get there. Installation a bit hard? A few good tutorials exist, including a few install scripts you can download using curl/wget in the live environment. Also, live environment includes installation instructions in the first working directory you drop in to. Though looking at them would be hard without a terminal multiplexer. . .tmux?
Arch community is legendary for being, well, "mean" at times. YMMV, but buy-in-large, as long as you show in your forum posts you:

  1. Attempted to read the wiki.
  2. Searched the forums lightly for previous topics
  3. Attempted at least 1 or 2 solutions suggested in above (or googling)
    3a. Explain said attempts and show output of relevant files or processes

Experiences should go a bit. . .more smoothly than some. Archers tend to be a bit more. . .to the point? I guess. (A bit unlike me, haha)

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Also, irssi and weechat are excellent terminal IRC clients. You can grab support on either #archlinux or #archlinux-newbie (freenode)

Currently we are working with the developer of fpakman as a temp solution until pamac will adopt support for snaps and/or flatpaks. The direction to go for snaps for some usecases is more part of the enterprise solutions we plan for 2020. A lot of news in that direction will come soon. Manjaro 18.1 is only the beginning of something great. And don't worry. The rolling concept will be still there. We only add additional ways to use Manjaro.

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but please share more details than you usually do :smiley: For me it's enigmatic/confusing what you guys are doing in most part. I see that you cooperate with some companies but who are they (except BYTEMARK which you mention some time ago) I have no idea. I feel that we need some blog site on manjaro.org where information like partnership with PINE64 can be posted with more details than few words in Update Announcement.

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Well, I think I see the picture. Minimal repos for the base system, everything else comes from snap and the software is run by pamac. Then you integrate snaps with Nix so the system can be rolled back and you have more stable and easy to use system. I can't argue with that, I just don't understand why all the mess in the meantime. Instead if messing the flagship ISOs you should have a test distro with this in mind. I get you want the maximum userbase (meaning software coverage with no hassle) with minimum maintainership effort. But you should choose a clear direction. I mean clear for the user, not clear only in your head. I wish the best for Manjaro, but I honestly don't know how long I'll be staying. Whenever I install something like Windows I spend 2 or 3 days uninstalling ■■■■ and customizing it. I'm not willing to do that in Linux also. I started with Arch and came to Manjaro because I hate installing and customizing software. Manjaro is great, well polished, not bloated (at least generally), flexible, stable (ate least for me) and it has a wide range of kernels (the main plus for me). Please don't ruin that.

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We will still keep our motto "enjoy the simplicity" in mind. Our new approach will be clarified real soon. No worries about big changes. Our goal will be to make Manjaro the go-to Desktop distribution. Everything we do we will announce in a proper manner soon.

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I sure hope so. Can't wait for the announcement. My opinion about all the options provided at the same time is maintained though. One thing is to have the option to use it (meaning installing), another thing is to have all of them in your face.

Thanks for the feedback.

I look forward to those announcements. Honestly, I do.

The Motto "Enjoy the simplicity" is important to Manjaro. Just so long as what you said:

That add additional ways to use Manjaro is important and I hope it stays one of the primary points on your check-list as things go forward.
Because for me, anything less than what we have now is not viable nor wanted. No neutered repos in favor of snaps/flatpaks. No locked down systems (I understand Enterprise has different priorities) for users. Or whatever horrible thing we can think up. :wink:
I absolutely would hate to see this community implode because Manjaro lost the plot and spiraled into some Canonical silliness.

Thanks for the info @philm

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Manjaro Enterprise OS - mentos

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And now I wonder if my comment was unwarranted, haha XD

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My only concern is @philm and the rest of the team do not undertake a ridiculous amount of work only for it to cause the end of Manjaro and real life relationships, loss of employment etc. through burn out. The directions described smack of a commercial level distribution which employs paid members of staff. Unless I've missed something glaringly obvious, Manjaro is a group of individuals who came together with a shared passion for Linux and maintain it in free time outside of work and other life commitments.

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I am happy to create a joke - but I am very serious - I really think that the Manjaro way is creating precedence for other distributions to follow.

I mean Manjaro has unique capabilities which other distros lack - I do believe Manjaro has a greater future - with an enterprise version.

That of course include that some are going to be employees.

One of the finest examples of such thing is CrossOver - https://codeweavers.com - they contribute substantially to the Wine while still maintaining something people want to pay for.

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