[XFCE RC5] Isn't that beautiful?


This is Manjaro XFCE 18.1.0 RC5.

  • Three entirely separate and independent means of software distribution supported by default at the same time: .pkg.tar.xz packages (whether from repos or AUR), Snap and Flatpak. We now can't assume that a user got the program from repos or AUR; we have to take into account that someone may have got it with Snap or Flatpak too, and that maybe the user have no clue what mean of software distribution he actually used. Have fun troubleshooting.
  • Two programs to manage software according to the menu, with more or less similar name and description in the menu. What should I use?;
  • Krita appears three times. Which one should I take? How should I know what I am supposed to choose?
  • Both program used to manage software offers to do updates. Which one should I use to maintain my system? Are they totally equivalent or not? Will each of them update absolutely everything on my system (OS, libraries, applications...) or not?

How newcomers are supposed to familiarize with this and not get totally confused? Already on Windows 10, it was a bit more complicated with the addition of the Windows store, although it is such a joke that it is often pretty much not taken into account that much.

But now, we have made it even more messy, complicated and confusing than Windows 10. Isn't that beautiful?

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Novice user with that:

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Arch: KISS
Manjaro: ... hold my beer :beer:
Newbies: ... but can it fly and make ice cream?!

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This is actually confusing to me. The one that just says "Software" in the header... I have no idea what program that even is, and newcomers won't either because it doesn't tell you in the header.

"How did you install the package?"
"I used Software to install the package"

"Software"

That's from Gnome, isn't it?

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Yeah, Gnome loves naming there software super generic names. :rofl:
Which I guess works for them.

rather manjaro drinks beer and that gives that :face_vomiting:

With 18.1 we will enable snaps and flatpak for getting software into Manjaro. Also it is expected to be less complicated when using those new ways to install software. Sure, it is a little confusing when you find the same software multiple time. Currently we have all enabled, but might go the snap way in future versions of Manjaro.

Most likely we might even bring a version of Manjaro, which has a solid base-image you can't change and install applications via snaps. This will be then more in the enterprise sector, so companies can define which applications their employees might are allowed to install on their work machines.

Anyway, there is also a work ongoing with a new tool called fpakman, which supports snaps and flatpaks in a simple UI.

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Is all = sum {flatpack; snaps; repos} or sum \ {repos} ?

Hahahahahahahhaaha!

Ubunjardows. Complete with it's own app store!

I'm sure they will. You'll have a '/' partition > 20 GB in size. One benefit: Ubunjardows will bring with it it's own kind of DLL Hell! (Soname Hell!) :slight_smile:

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Better to return to original Ubuntu or Debian, with the rolling release way is useless. Strange point of view.... Snaps, Flatpack.... is good for fixed release, rolling don't need that.

(answer for philm)

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In my opinion that contradicts two major points of Manjaro:

  1. Freedom of choice
  2. Rolling release. This sort of system is far away from rolling, one might as well use a debian base

Sorry to say that, but most enterprises expect support for the software they are using and a forum run by volunteers is not suitable to provide support for an enterprise and I doubt that too many volunteers will actually help providing corporate software support (at least for such big companies which would regulate the work environment to that extent).
In my opinion, the community character of Manjaro (and especially its forum) gets lost by following that direction.

What remains to say is that I hope you stick to the repositories as the main ressource for software.
Please do not forget the concerns of your community, which were already shown recently as snap support was enabled by default.

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I do not understand that point. How is it supposed to be less complicated to have three means of software distribution instead of only one by default? How users are supposed to navigate through that? Also, life will get harder for people helping users on the forum since they have to take into account Flatpak and Snap in addition to the repos (and AUR).

What is the "snap way"? What do you mean exactly by that?

Huh?

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I warned about this...

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We will reveal that at the proper time. However, the rolling concept we will still keep and will work on an additional part to support also a more static version of Manjaro.

All those Canonical $$$ have scrambled your brain :money_mouth_face: . I could have sworn Manjaro was an Arch based rolling distro... :dizzy_face:

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I just hope I can disable snaps and flatpak from pamac-gtk searches, installs and updates.

I use 2 or 3 flatpaks in MX, but that's not a rolling distro, and the flatpaks are kept separate from normal system updates. I don't have to update them together with system updates (or at all) if I don't want to.

Otherwise I could be collecting numerous new gnome runtimes every update and you know how large they are.

I don't see the point of flatpaks and snaps (worse for snaps since it's tied to Canonical only) in Manjaro, and worse, if they make the updates of all portable apps in pamac GUI mandatory before the installation of a normal package from native repos.

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Yeah, it maybe time to start looking into an actual Arch install just in case Manjaro goes hinkey in the future, which I hope it doesn't. If it does, it'll mean I'll have to tell every one which operating system I run every five minutes!

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My test system is already on EndeavourOS. It has a much better community than arch, yet has all the arch goodness.

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Even if you know about snap/flatpak you can't make an informed decision in this software thingy because it doesn't state the program's origin. I'm puzzled as to why the (software thingy) developers didn't see and fix that in the first place.

I think it means snap might be favoured over flatpak and if push comes to shove, flatpak would not be installed by default (anymore).

I lack imagination to see how this could be working. I'm just sad to see (scarce) resources directed this way.

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