Why do people want Linux to behave like other systems?

I see posts around the web all the time complaining about arbitrary things like passwords for software installation, repo use, complaints about stuff like facial recognition not being on the Librem 5. (Yes. You read that correctly.) Among other things. Here's what I can't understand. When I wanted to move to Linux, (or GNU/Linux, if we want to do the "proper name") I did my research and understood that generally, Linux distros are privacy and security focused software and are fundamentally different from other systems. I explored the community, found Manjaro, fell in love.

It was hard at first, but I stuck with it. And here's the thing, at no point in my journey did I request the system behave like Windows or something else. I took the advice and guidance I got to heart, and now I have two stable Manjaro machines. People who come to Linux and then complain about how Linux isn't like their old platform drive me insane. I can understand things like criticizing your distro for lack of software or poor maintenance, but when I see things like "OMG why can't I just turn on automatic updates?" my head explodes. Because that would defeat the purpose of GNU/Linux. It's here to be different from other systems* and respect user choice. Unlike most other systems. (With stuff like auto-update, you get things like forced restarts, or my personal favorite in Sony's case, turning off the network until you install your update.)

TL,DR: What makes Linux special is that it is fundamentally different from other systems. That's why most Linux users came to it. I don't understand why people come to Linux just to complain about it. If you complained as much to your old platform they might fix what was bothering you!

End of rant.

  • To clarify, I am not stating that GNU/Linux is meant to be a competitor for any other OS. Rather, it is different fundamentally.
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I agree. In order for Linux to be superior (which is a subjective value judgement, of course) to other OS, it cannot be equal to them. Generally, the ways in which Linux is different from other OS makes it better, in my opinion.

However, people are used to Windows and Mac. Linux is not the first OS for the vast majority of its users (not counting Android, of course) and it takes time to get used to it. I tried switching from Windows to Linux around 2003 or so, and I absolutely hated it. I had to get fed up with Windows first (which is malware, by any definition) before I had the willpower to switch to Linux. Now, I'd never go back.

The only downside to Linux is that it is used on less than 5% of desktop PCs, so people don't take it seriously. If we could get that number to 15 or 20%, that would be a significant improvement and we'd get more industry standard software.

Also, most of us here love Manjaro, but we tend to forget that a rolling distro like Manjaro is not for everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to my boomer parents (for them, Debian is perfect, it is practically unbreakable). Even though my dad is very tech-savvy, and an excellent C programmer, he just hates the whole concept of updates and loves Debian. And my mum just uses LibreOffice and Firefox, so Debian is great for her. Having them use Manjaro would make their lives miserable the moment first major update came around.

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@A-MAN I agree with the rant about unwarranted expectations of some people, especially where compromising security for nothing but laziness is concerned. It's hardly taxing tapping a few keys...

There's a time and place when it actually comes in handy for Linux to at least resemble Windows if not act completely the same way though.

It's become exponentially easier for people to switch in 2019 because of improved GUI options and the likes of Mint, UbuntuMATE and Zorin which are pretty much idiot proof introductions into the world of Linux with a familiar look and feel.

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We will bring another way on how to use Linux not the classic Linux way by removing the package management as you currently know. Bases system and desktop environment will be automatically updated and apps management will be snaps or/and flatpaks.

However this will still need the current rolling way as base to provide the parts for the upcoming new approach. Windows and Mac OS User will have then what they want and might switch to our platform in the end.

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I bet BSD forums complain about former Linux users who want their BSD be like Linux.

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Perhaps my rant made me come off as a bit of an elitist. I am all for making certain things easier, I just don't want to see the core philosophies tossed in the garbage in the name of doing so. I have my parents on Linux Mint actually. My main fear is Linux turning into something like W10 in its entirety. Hence why I tend to oppose automation, though I do have a greater trust for the Manjaro team than say, Microsoft.

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You're not wrong. I have seen it when I was exploring FreeBSD a while back.

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Like why can't BSDs support systemd?

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:thinking: Realistically speaking, Linux cannot behave like other systems because it is its own thing.

However, familiar-looking GUI options could make the former Microsoft Windows or macOS user feel a bit more at home.

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Or "In which folder is the kernel?"

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Agreed. I'm not talking about stuff like CLI vs GUI though. I use KDE which looks similar to W7. I just wanted to remind people that privacy and user control are a big part of Linux, and I don't want to see that go away in the name of appeasing newcomers. By all means, we can simplify the process, but don't change it to the degree where it's no longer within the Linux philosophies. That was my point.

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"And suddenly hundreds of BSD users cried out in terror..."

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Its not about Linux, its about some distros. This does not happen often on the Arch forum and I imagine it to be true for Gentoo, LFS, etc. as well.

Distros like Manjaro simply attract this kind of people. We are not talking average users since most non IT savvy people I know do not demand and demand and complain and behave like ****.

Its a certain group of people around the world that thinks the world spins around them. And if Philip makes a distro that should make people feel like Windows or Mac he automatically attracts that crowd.

And since those people don't get a GTFO as on some forums since "we try to be nice to everyone" they constantly keep coming and annoy regulars, beginners and experienced forum members.
:rofl:

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Its very simple if a distro advertises itself as a drop-in replacement for windows.
It then attracts users that believe what they have read.

Where do you see Apple advertised as a drop in replacement for Windows, What you see is Mac is different to windows.

Arch does not advertise itself as a easy to use Linux, totally the reverse Users that install the Arch way rarely think they are superior they install the arch way to save time as they know what they want
So called Arch users that do not install the Arch way are not Arch users they are users of the Distribution they installed not Arch.

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So, either don't advertise or even make anti-advertising. And have no wrong people attracted.

Or advertise and learn to live with all kind of people.

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Yep that is about it,
But it would be better to tell the truth Linux is not windows, its not a drop in replacement, nor is it intended to be.
Its a operating system in its own right. lol

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It could also be people misinterpreting the advertising as well. The website says "suitable replacement" for Windows and Mac, which can be interpreted in a variety of ways. I always understood that every OS is different, but then again, other people might not. As @Coffeetron was saying, there's a certain kind of user around the internet that thinks everything revolves around them. I actually read the Manjaro website where it says

"Manjaro is not a consumer-oriented operating system. You have full control and you will not be prevented from breaking your own installation - but then again, breaking things and fixing them is half of the fun! On the other hand, if you are happy with the way it works you don’t have to change a thing." Something tells me the users I was criticizing in my OP didn't read that.

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Yeah, it doesn't take several days to install for example. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Sometimes I think that if Linux distros allowed themselves to be like Windows nobody would install them.
So the truth would be: If you are used to Windows, Linux will be difficult. If you are used to Linux, Windows will be a torture.

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Teehee.

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I am personally ok with this as long as the security and privacy of the OS is not compromised in any way. I am a little leery of automation but I trust you all on it. If there was a way to turn it off that would be great, too.

With all due respect, while I understand wanting new users, I don't think it would be wise to cater to every demand made by the outside. We don't know if they will still make the switch after all. Just something to think about. Also, I don't think it's a good idea to use snap, as that chains the distro to Canonical. I'd go with flatpak, but you are the devs, it's your decision. I still love this distro and plan to stick with it. Thank you and the rest of the team for your hard work.

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