Whats the magic in the manjaro linux kernel/initramfs?

So this means what for having a solution right now and not waiting for future?

Should I always choose the fallback kernel or will it possible to set a variable for compatibilty to follow the behavior like the others distros do?

@stephane do you want to answer peter li's last question ?
I think he is sincere and true in his question and deserves an answer.
I've answered this more times than I can remember which is okay for me - except for the fud by others in response - that our grub is better and other distros cannot handle intel-ucode.

Please be my guest (meaning - please answer him). Thanks.

@peter_li, if there is no answer, please search in this forum 'intel-ucode' and user @gohlip

No love for amd-ucode?

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@peter_li
you can check in any distribution linux
with

sudo more /boot/grub.cfg

from manjaro we use

linux	/boot/vmlinuz-5.0-x86_64 root=UUID=aa940861-9549-4d9c-8a95-6e556d073aa5 rw  quiet scsi_mod.use_blk_mq=1
initrd	/boot/intel-ucode.img /boot/initramfs-5.0-x86_64.img

--> for entry in initrd < microcode > < initramfs >

for other distributions
--> for entry in initrd < initramsfs >

version 2.04 is in release candidate

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/commit/?id=e86f6aafb8de4123a8738e540f83afc9f407399a

so in order to always work
--> install other distribution , avoid to install grub if possible ,
use you USB stick install
open a terminal

manjaro-chroot -a ( select 1 if one line appears )
update-grub
exit ( leave chroot ) 

then reboot , and press Esc you will see all entry

@peter_li, your answer lies within ...

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microcode

You missed
sudo grub-install /dev/sda

Or you can use just this Simple First start to fix it.
Easier, faster and safer.

Okay, thanks, so I understand how important the load of the microcode is.

But what I wonder is:
Other distributions like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint or Fedora, Redhat etc. had to find a similar solution too for supporting their users and found a other way. Was/is there no contact/discussion between the developers to find a solution which is good for all?

If that were so, there wouldn't be any wars on Earth, a very good idea so far. :slight_smile:

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I dont expect the world peace but I Support the efforts for a Linux Standard to get a stronger Linux and more market share.

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This is how Arch does it, so Manajaro inherits this ... much to @gohlip's chagrin, annoyance, displeasure and vexation.

Good luck to anyone trying to convincing Arch devs their approach is wrong, never mind someone using Manjaro.

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Nobody's trying to change Arch; as they say in a song, we start by changing ourselves.

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If you can show a definite/concrete technical reason and present the argument well they may be open to it. Even more so if you can provide the alternative implementation.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux#Pragmatism

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I'd be hesitant to convince others if we cannot convince ourselves.

Well the convincing needs to happen somewhere, and the point is it hasnt...
[heck, I dont even know of attempts at convincing - so if you can enlighten us, please do.]

The 'convincing' started during the old 'classic' forum days and if I'm not mistaken, these 'classic' forum is no longer viewable. I've also PM'ed many of the developers, (some are no longer developers now) with output of other distros dmesg showing 'early' adoption of intel-ucode as this was a reason given for not following other distros' method.

An expectation was given that unless we cleared this, we'll have disgruntled newcomers to manjaro (most will not come to the forum to complain) and bad writeup by reviewers (dediosomething if I'm not mistaken). Perhaps I'd done 'too much' convincing.

But nevertheless, given your persistence, I will give a short summary, but later. It's morning here and I'll need to do my morning routines.

Cheers.

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Let's start with this example I've made before somewhere here in this forum.

Let's say, we in Manjaro made modifications in libreoffice to improve certain features of it.
(We cannot say we've made modifications in grub to improve it, on the contrary...)
However, let's say this results in the documents made in Manjaro unable to be accessed by all other distro's libreoffice. I would think that that would be unacceptable, including by Manjaro's users.
The proper thing to do, IMO, would be to go to libreoffice developers to propose the improvements to be incorporated into the upstream package and so all distros from would not only benefit from it but would be compatible with all. I believe this would be the cardinal principle accepted by all linux distros in respect to upstream packages.

To be clear, there are certain things a distro can do in its modifications. Writing scripts into its unique distro commands would be one. Modifying kernels to suit its own purposes is a common practice, among others. But these are things that do not impinge upon other distros. In fact, copying other distro modifications for its own is accepted and encouraged, not frowned upon. Open source practices do improve and encourage competition, innovation and efficiency; and improve copier and copied. We would not be here if we do not copy, and not just from Arch. And neither would Arch be here. But I digress.

The main point to be made is that unwary manjaro users, upon installing other distros will find it unable to boot Manjaro. That in itself would be bad. Of course, there are some people, by whatever means (custom.cfg, multiboot, configfile, removing intel-ucode... ) overcome this. There are even others who insists that dual-booting must be avoided. And many in between who install another OS in another disk, removing existing disk while installing and booting up via the bios setup keys when installed. Isn't that a pity? Isn't this the main point after all?

Then there are distros who go out of the way to make new users succeed in installing and using their distro's; including adding shim just to circumvent Microsoft's attempt to tie in their customers. And there are distros who in Linus's words go all the way to suck Microsoft's dick. And there are distros who warn new users their distro's are not for newbies. Yet one of these 'newbie-unfriendly' distros, made intel-ucode into their kernels in 2 days upon my request. So we ask, what are we? What so we want to be?

Whatever we want to be, so be it. But let us be clear about it.

ps: Convincing Links? Okay,
This very one here? Why not?
This one?
How about this? Last we heard of OP. Maybe he got banned?

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Or we could just rename the ucode image files to ucode-intel and ucode-amd. Then non-manjaro grub would find the kernel first and leave out ucode, resulting in a booting.
Just kidding.. (or not)

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While I partially agree from the standpoint of 'access' or 'ease of use' .. I fail to find any technical arguments as to why one situation is better or worse than the other.

If the main point is that it makes it less easy to cooperate with other distros while multi-booting .. well thats not an argument. Thats a fact. Whether something should, for good reason, be changed on our end, is slightly different.

And, dont forget, if such a decision is made - and one still not accepted by Arch - it will be one more divergence.

Would that make us better or worse according to the reddit hordes ?
If that is something any of us should even care about ?

Empowering people is great.
Likewise with their technology.
Spoonfeeding partials based upon what they already knew (lets do pledge of togetherness, instead of pledge of allegiance to a flag) is really murky really fast if you are trying to take a position.

So, please, in technical terms, explain the needs, wants, and holes.

I respect you a whole lot, so please dont take this any way but that.

It is plain to me that the difficulties manjaro users face in booting manjaro from other distro bootloaders is of a technical nature. Naturally, to me, it is better they do not face this issue.

There is nothing about cooperation or of allegiance. Allegiance have no place even in non-technical situations. Only correctness and propriety. But one would hope that the things we all do here is not purely of mercantilist considerations.

I have repeated several times that I am really not interested in convincing others to my point of view (except cheesecake). Now it is one of those times. I thank you for the respect and I return the sincerity likewise.

Cheers.

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