Weird mouse-cursor issue on Mjro Cinnamon

Hi guys.

Question for the Manjaro (Cinnamon) maintainers as I don’t get it why this happens / is done the way it is done…

I recently switched to the updated vertex-maia theme/icons/xcursor (was curious about the improvements @oberon introduced while reading the teasers about it in the “testing” announcement posts and reading through the release-plan on GitHub) and noticed something really weird …

In “Manjaro Settings Manager” or “Vivaldi” (just to name two as an example for y’all to reproduce) the mouse cursor changes from “maia-cursor” to “simple-and-soft” while being inside the “Manjaro Settings Manager” || “Vivaldi” window. Moving the mouse cursor out of the window and it’s back to maia-cursor.

I worked out that this “cursor is changing theme” is caused by /usr/share/icons/default/index.theme --> “Inherits=Simple-and-Soft” - I changed the file to “Inherits=Maia-Cursor” to fix the glitch but I really don’t get what’s going here and why it is done this way … it just gets in the way when you customize theming to your own likings.

Also … since the Menda theme seems to be broken (GTK 3.20) … why can’t I remove it (trying to uninstall it wants to remove cinnamon related packages)? If you ask me, the cinnamon packages have some “requires” dependencies which are totally needless / useless … just settle on one “Manjaro default” theme and make the other themes optional instead (it’s just a click on the “Install” button in Pamac to install a optional package if one feels fancy enough). Same goes for the “Simple and Soft” xcursor theme … obviously a “requires” dependency from the cinnamon packages.

Lastly, to provide some feedback from a user perspective to @oberon as it seems he’s the one dealing with theming (at least that’s the impression I got from the “release plan” thread on GitHub)…

The updated maia-vertex in itself sure looks nice, but the icons … I don’t know . They are surely all round and colorful, but they don’t look really breathtaking in “Cinnamon Menu”. The icons for the categories are, from my viewpoint, a step backwards from the old “maia” theme … the “outline-ish” / “lineart-ish” nature of the icons looks kinda boring (especially the “slider” icon for the “Administration” and “Settings” category … I’d go as far as they don’t really fit in with the rest). Also the “Recent Files” item in cinnamon menu is still missing its icon (already reported in another post)! The icons for the programs … well … I don’t know how they look in other DE’s, but in the cinnamon menu they look confusing, and the libreoffice icons are just plain ugly (sorry, honest opinion); especially the “LibreOffice Draw” icon tops it off in terms of ridiculousness (followed by the “The Gimp” icon and the “Enpass” (Password Manager) icon followed by the HexChat icon followed by the …).

That being said, I like the file icons (Nemo) … especially the “symlink” overlay is way clearer now - though (to pick a few bones here as well) …

The “FTP connection” bookmark icon as well as the “CIFS share” bookmark icon (Nemo Sidebar) are really bad, and the orange-ish / yellow-ish “Recent” icon also looks totally out of place and clashes perfectly with the light grey-ish background of the sidebar. May look good on the “Dark” variant of vertex-maia, but then this one causes so many problems with programs (LibreOffice and a bag of others)… @.@

While I understand the need for defining a “personality” for Manjaro … why not simply use the Linux Mint (Mint-X or Mint-Y) theme/icons for at least the cinnamon edition? The polish (okay, “Mint-Y” Dark/Darker has a few problems on the same level as “Vertex-Maia-Dark”) is way better… (no offense meant, but I stand my point that the Vertex thing is lacking).

'LLo

Because the cinnamon packages have been builded with it as dependancy & i agree with you that sometimes there’s a default icon theme (adwaita with gtk3 in example) you never use is a bit annoying…

Thank you for your feedback, @B.Jay!
Some explanations:

  • /usr/share/icons/default/index.theme is owned by libxcursor and by default installed with Inherits=Adwaita We overwrite that with the actual cursor theme of an ISO as a workaround. I I don’t you will get the exact same effect with Adwaita instead of the intended cursor theme in the places you describe… The only clean way aroud this would be to maintain our own libxcursor package - which is not feasible.
  • The theme dependencies of manjaro-cinnamon-settings package are there because those themes are defined in the gsettings of the same package. So if the packages would not be installed, that would break the gsettings of the package. If you want to remove those themes you’d have to remove manjaro-cinnamon-settings package, too and I think it should not be a problem unless you want to create a new user and you want it to have the Manjaro settings as default.
  • We didn’t create the Maia icons from scratch but only adjusted the colors to fit the new Vertex-Maia theme. Maybe it was not a good choice for Cinnamon and I will certainly re-think it for the next release. After the taste for theming of course remains personal, but about missing icons it would be great if you would like to report those on github so we can try to add those.

Thanks again! :slight_smile:

Hi oberon, really glad you’re not upset (wasn’t sure how the post will be perceived, written isn’t always the same as spoken - lacks nuance and tone).

Anyhow…

Re 1) Thanks for the clarification on the “default” theme thing in relation to the mouse cursor. I now see why it’s there and what the purpose is. However, may I suggest to maybe try and implement some config option to override the override (read: update / change the default mouse cursor to match a theme in case it comes with its own cursor set or switch to the one the user selected in $de_specific_theme_changing_controlpanel)? You know, I’m thinking into the direction like Windows does it … where you can checkmark on option whether or not a theme is allowed to changed the mouse cursor graphics.

Re 2) Hmm… I have no real clue about the modifications done to Cinnamon to make it work on Manjaro (if any, that is) - but at least on the real Linux Mint Cinnamon doesn’t depend on a buckful-o-themes. On the contrary, it’s the “mint-desktop” meta DEB that depends on the Mint-X (depends on gnome-standard-icons-full and something else I fail to recall without my Mint box at hand), Mint-Y and Cinnamon (panel) theme. Please don’t take it the wrong way, but if Cinnamon depends on $random_theme on Manjaro because there’s some gsettings default then this is clearly a not overly smart brainfart. Like I said, if you want/need to define a “personality” for Manjaro so everyone can recognize it at first sight (just like everyone recognizes Ubuntu/Unity at first glimpse), settle with one default across all DE flavors (if possible) and make the optional ones optional.

Re 3) Well, the icons in “Cinnamon menu” (Categories and Programs) are either 32px or 48px (guesstimated - it’s one of the two). While they are colorful they aren’t really “polished”.

As an “this is a kinda polished appearance” to “Re 3” … I just finished up switching over to “Arc Theme” (the git version from AUR which is in line with Horst’s GitHub repo), Arc icons + Moka icons. I set the “Dark” variant for the desktop (plus LightDM where appropriate), the “Dark” version for Cinnamon (panel and menu), and the “Arc” icon theme (which inherits Moka). Now … that’s the hell of a almost-polished-to-perfection appearance. The “Lock Screen / Logout / Quit|Shutdown” icons in the bottom left of “Cinnamon menu / Mint menu” (call it like you will) finally have a unified look, the category icons are recognizable and give a idea about them from a visual standpoint, the “applications override icons” are also recognizable for the most part (there are two or three which are a catastrophe, but close enough to “well polished” overall). The “Places / My Computer” icons in Nemo (should actually be the same in Nautilus) are still a minor catastrophe - dark icons on a dark background headwall - and the choice of a “WiFi” symbol icon for FTP/CIFS bookmarks is also on the verge of questionable. Overall, though, the theme (especially in the light version) is very well done and even beats Mint’s “Mint-X” (kinda dated nowadays) or new “Mint-Y” (which is based upon Arc) on some orders of magnitude hands-down.

Combine that with the default pre-installed black Adwaita cursor (too bad it doesn’t have a nice “busy” spinner like "Maia-Cursor has) and this is what I would call a very pleasing default (Arc could need a wee bit more tweaking to iron out the one or another niggle outlined above - I guess I may go to the trouble to follow Horst’s guide to make the niggles go away). How about you guys consider vanilla “Arc” and repaint the three flavors into the Manjaro green you introduced with Vertex-Maia? While I have no problem with the blue accent of the theme it clearly lacks the “Mint-iness” :wink: … especially with Cinnamon which originates from Mint. ,) … and the Super Green (yes, “5th Element” Chris Tucker reference) of Manjaro.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, thank you all for Manjaro (ah, it feels so good being on a great rolling release where you also don’t need a metric buttload of PPAs to get stuff or keep stuff recent over time), and most importantly keep up the good work. So far everyone to which I recommended Manjaro (to either escape Microsoft’s Rootkitted Spyware OS or avoid the unholyness of Xenial’s botched base-system (coughMint 18cough)) is/was massively impressed at the ease of getting a Arch based system up and working - you guys clearly made the installation a breeze (first installer I came across that correctly deals with CSM Vs. UEFI as well as MBR Vs. GPT).

Off now squashing the last few niggles out of Arc… XD

# echo XCURSOR_THEME="Maia-Cursor" >> /etc/environment

The icon that shows up on bootup before login is perfect for dark screen backgrounds. The cursor sets that are available all go dark when over the background. If the wallpaper is dark the cursor practically disappears.

In manjaro 18, I fixed it by #Inherits=Simple-and-Soft on the index.theme mentioned above to disable the default. In your new 19 release, at least for now, that fix doesn't work.

One note on a different subject. I installed 18.1.5 Plasma edition and immediately noticed two problems.

1 - random freezes of the system, and

2 - freezes of the cursor after startup and arrival at the main desktop.

Just as a shot in the dark I installed and activated the most recent experimental kernal (5.5) and it seems to have fixed the random freezes.

The second problem I avoid by moving the cursor around before and during login. Not sure why that worked, but it did.

Loving Manjaro, by the way.

Regards,

Walt

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