Unsatisfying mouse options everywhere

It appears there is simply not enough demand.

Your INXI output says you are running Ubuntu. Go to them with help in their distro. Install Manjaro–or boot into it if it is installed–then give us the output. Manjaro is not Ubuntu.

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Libinput is one of the requirements for everything moving over to Wayland which, along with SystemD and a few others, are the hellspawn of Leonnart Poettering & Red Hat.

It’s half-baked and there is no good replacement for deprecated libsynaptics, but until there is I don’t see developers responding to what is not–or no longer–possible.

But it’s a WIP, so eventually something will improve.

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Say what ?

image

Whoever uses those settings must be :cloud_with_lightning:Flash :smiley:

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Huh?


My settings options look very simple.

See here


it can be done, as @kdemeoz decided later on that post, to create the 11-evdev.conf so it will not be rewritten after an update. :slight_smile:

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What would it help to run it on Manjaro? I guess this was just meant for hardware specs, right? But for your info: I actually plan to switch to Manjaro soon, since although suffering the mouse problems every Linux distro seems to suffer, it still has many benefits which I like.

Thanks for that additional information. Still I think it is just bad to replace something with an “half-baked” alternative which is still lacking basic features. I mean, who decided that every distro has to switch? And if Wayland is requiring it, why not put some manpower into it to make it feature complete? I know this might be hard in the Open Source world where responsibilities are not really there. But I mean, if Red Hat is wanting to push Wayland they also should develop libinput to a good state first.

I remember I also used to have these settings in KDE, probably before they switched to libinput? Still they seem to lack settings for pointer speed and also scroll acceleration. On top of that: The scroll speed did not have any effect in some applications like Firefox. I know they use something of their own and one can increase the scrolling speed when messing with about:config, but when looking on Windows it works there without having to do things like these.

If you run Ubuntu you should ask for support on Ubuntu-forums, I thought this is common sense?

I am not running to the Audi forum to ask for help with my BMW just because they use the part from the same vendor and just re-badge it.:crazy_face:

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Maybe you did not read my introductory post carefully enough or I formulated not clearly enough. I tried all the official flavours of Manjaro and all of them have this common “problem”. A bit in a hope that things go better here than on the Ubuntu side (which has several issues in their bugtracker about these open that I am tracking already) I started this post.

Also, although I don’t really like these car or whatever examples because they obviously never really resemble the actual problem:

Let’s look it in this way: My current car has problems with its “steering unit”, which all car manufacturers miraculously are getting from the same supplier. You have to turn it much more than normal to make your car change direction significantly. Most customers simply do not notice or don’t care enough to take the effort and ask their car manufacturer about this. Maybe they also think the car manufacturer is probably doing a good job developing cars, so this has to be desired. Then there are some who ask for advise and experienced car drivers tell them ways how to fix it by themselves.
Only a few actually complain to the car manufacturer who does not care much and puts it low on the priority list. Also he says “this is not up to me, this is up to the supplier”. So some very brave people even ask the supplier about this problem. He says “well, I want to sell steering units and am thinking about adding a motor into it to make handling easier. Fixing your problem might require alot of thinking work and maybe even a change of the architecture. Also there does not seem much demand for this feature, especially all car manufacturers seem to be happy with my product. Otherwise they would not buy it”.

After some frustrating waiting time I come across a new car manufacturer who seems to care more about its customers needs and also maybe has slimmer processes and more time to actually work on some long lasting problems. Maybe I try asking him, so he can use a bit of his leverage on the steering unit supplier, so this annoying problem finally can get fixed for everyone.

Using your analogy, as this issue seems to be influenced by the DEs, I’d recommend you open threads on Gnome, KDE related pages. If they would fix this every distro which uses the DE could benefit from it.

I think what you want is only reasonable and I would too like to set scroll speed. Then again, to come back to your analogy, other OS don’t really care for our specific needs unless you are big money. E.g. Windows only now realized to add some black themes for the explorer. I wanted this feature 10 years ago to avoid eye bleeding and such.

Of course I want to have this fixed in the DEs. Problem is that there does not seem much response when creating an issue there. So I hoped having some more luck complaining here, so we could start an effort together in bringing this up on the DEs pages/people.

I would not say that Linux or DEs really care for (all) “our specific needs” either. I think they might just be a bit more open, so the gaps can then be filled by other people developing solutions for the problems.
But you are right that other OS like Windows also have their problems. And since I personally prefer Linux I thought maybe I can find a way to get these problems I have finally sorted out.

My mom used to have a favorite saying, “you catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar”. The tone of most of your posts aren’t exactly gaining you sympathy for your issue at hand.

Basically, what I’m trying to let you know is your approach is very unlikely to gain you support. Linux is developed by volunteers. You will find far more volunteers when you ask politely, (rather than with strident complaints).

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I thought this is the rant section :wink:

While you might be right that this way is not effective to gain support for my idea I thought it was important to state that at least for me this is a basic feature for me.

But I am actually thinking how this can be turned into some constructive effort to get this implemented soon. One thing would be to create a meta thread which contains links to the corresponding issues for the lacking features on the different DEs.
However I am unsure whether this will have any effect.
Maybe that is another reason why I complained about it. Because there is not much I seem to be able to do about it. But if you have good ideas then I will be open to them.

First approach:
Is here in this thread someone who is technically capable of improving the current situation or knows someone who might be (possible volunteer)? It might not be an interesting task but I think for many users (including me) this will mean alot, besides also helping to reduce the many requests on support forums how to change pointer speed and so on.

I realize this is the rant section. While ranting may make you feel better, it is totally counterproductive to your aims. I am trying to let you know that if you truly wish to spur changes to your issue, you are going about it in the worst possible manner.

You need to change your approach in dealing with people, if you’d like others to assist in this effort.

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Yes. We control the Internet, we control your computer settings, and we’re the big monster hiding under your bed at night.

So let me get this straight. You aren’t running Manjaro, but Ubuntu, yet you think you can get us riled-up enough to make your mouse settings effective across all DEs and all Distributions?

Boy, we must be some Big Effing Deal! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Tell me; when the big bad bullies down the street taunt you, do you threaten them with Manjaro? :wink:

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How is this still being talked about?

Libinput is new and has Y features.

Almost all DE’s have yet to make their ‘mouse/touchpad settings’ work with libinput.

Synaptics is old, but compatible with most DE’s settings and provides XY features.

You may WAIT for libinput to be more fully mature and adopted.
OR you may use synaptics.

Thats the 2 options. Thats it. Nothing more to talk about.

(trust me … you are not the first person to ask for these things … people have been working on them for years)

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Welcome to the world of open source software.

Open, free, transparent … things take a little longer and FOSS devs generally not beholden to distro users’ wants and wishes (KDE excepted).

The beauty of open source is you can fork your own spin if unhappy, assuming you have the requisite skillset.

Already answered by @cooter.

Libinput is one of the requirements for everything moving over to Wayland which, along with SystemD and a few others, are the hellspawn of Leonnart Poettering & Red Hat.

Big upstream players like Red Hat have a lot of control here, distros mainly build what is available upstream, and assemble the components into a working OS.

Red Hat marches to the beat of its own drum and has more control than many feel comfortable with (hence niche hatred for systemd).

Rant heard loud and clear, however complaining here really serves little purpose, especially as nobody else seems to share your level of exasperation at mouse speeds not being quite fast enough.

The libinput spring movement barely made a ripple … :frowning: .

Complaining upstream with actual issues may get the ball rolling, it also may not, depends on dev priorities.

Keep up to date with changes and additions being made …

I assume you’ve read something more to get a better understanding of what libinput is and why it replaced synaptics …

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Libinput

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#libinput

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I get where you are coming from, although I am still thinking about how much truth is in this words.
However I will try to be more polite in the future while still maintaining my aim to be honest and without leaving the focus on the problem.

I prefer factual discussions

I hoped to get things moving a bit with an active and experienced community.

I used to run Ubuntu and was giving Manjaro a try. There I also noticed said problems, why I created this issue. Nonetheless I think Manjaro has many benefits over Ubuntu, so I had switching in mind when I wrote the first post. Now I switched to Manjaro.

One thing, might be not possible or there are good reasons not to do that, would be to ship synaptics with Manjaro by default until libinput has XY features. But that is probably not worth the downsides like lacking Wayland support, correct?

Thanks for the hint and the link. Unfortunately it took me some time to figure out that for most of my points there are actually no issues on libinput. So sorry to the guys in this thread who pointed me in that direction earlier (I even responded these issues would already exist not realising that I was talking about some downstream issues on the DEs like https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=692666 - even there is a specific mention of libinput which I must have ignored). It just took alot of these hints for me to finally understand this and to have an actual look at what libinput is and on their issue tracker. So thanks for the patience!

Interesting thing is that I seem to be not alone with this “blindness”. The more you go downstream the more issues and support seems to be for fixing these points. Maybe this is because we are used to call customer support in paid applications who then take care about our problem and forward it upstream, while on Linux we have to do this effort often by ourselves.

So now I went ahead and created / found the issues upstream for anyone interested:

To answer your question about shipping Synaptics by default, it is not a good idea. The developers need as much data as possible in order to fix problems and to know what users want/need. Distro maintainers also need to see how “the latest shiny” from (insert evil Linux company here) will affect their distros. With the eventual translation to Wayland, it is better to get the bugs/ issues worked out now before Wayland really goes mainstream.

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I too remember the Atari ST , and a Quadratic function
( mouse amplifier…) Very velocity sensitive.
But in these days of money made on “Gamer Hardware”.
And a level playing field - enforced on all. (with less money)
I’m unsure it’s un-wanted , or just falling on “Selective deafness ears” … thinking ££ $$ Mice !
-or even not technically possible,consistently-

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