[Stable Update] 2019-07-03 - Kernels, Systemd, Pamac 8.0, KDE, XFCE, Browser, QT

I, to remove or install kernels always use the "Manjaro Settings Manager", with it I can see what kernel is in use, what is the new, etc.

Smooth update, and bluetooth connection issue is gone w/ gnome
Thx to the devs

That's true, I indeed twisted what you wrote. Damn conditionals.

That conditional statement wasn't part of the first post I answered though. Slightly conditional in this post, although what defines a "major" upgrade, how you make the cut between a "major" upgrade and a "not major" upgrade on Manjaro, especially on Stable? (Also, using terminal or TTY wouldn't have avoided the original problem of original poster, but whatever, I already pointed that out in my first answer.)

Also, while you did mention a "if" statement, I do see the community often recommending to straight up avoid doing updates in GUI and go for CLI no matter what, and with no conditional this time. A recent example in the same thread.

So the paradox from the point of view of an outsider or a newcomer is still there: Manjaro offers (and even develop) a GUI package manager and it is one of the cornerstones of the distro in itself (even if not everyone use it), and yet, users are often recommended by the community to avoid using those and use the CLI instead; so why offer and even develop a GUI package manager if we should not use it? It won't make sense if said without context.

It is a thing to say: "listen, there can be moment when doing upgrades in GUI can lead to disaster because the graphical session can crash in the middle of upgrade, so I encourage you to follow update announcements and follow any special recommendations if there is any", it is another thing to say: "listen, if you don't want to break your system don't bother using GUI package manager; use CLI all the time".

After reading this thread and all the attending threads, I would be scared to update or even install Manjaro right now, were I new. Even if I were not.

In all the time I've been on these forums, I have never seen either of those two conditions--updates and installs--so poorly met by Manjaro.

Is Manjaro become a Guinea Pig distribution?

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Of course!
Better something become = higher expectations :wink:


On a serious note though, how the hell such a buggy qt update have passed unstable / testing in the first place...?

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There were posts reporting similar things related to QT in Testing. The weird stuff going on with some QT applications didn't get unnoticed, although it was mostly (only?) noticed for qBittorrent especially.

The right command is "sudo chmod -R 700 /var/log/audit/", filesystem is in the continuation of the phrase.

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It sure seems that way...Ubuntu patches to 5.1 kernels...snapd by default for new installs (along with a snap store)...Fedora patches to GRUB...we are morphing into FrankenJaro.

And I go even more exxtreme...in run-level 3.

Once bitten, twice shy....

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The 7/3 GRUB looks like something out of a Walt Disney Little Mermaids movie. I am sure it can be changed back to a simple screen and where we can see verbose on boot and shutdown (some of us find that useful) but why was it changed?. Snaps is corporate BS that Canonical and others use to monetize the user and try to control the developer ecology for a distro. On a system that is yours (but not for long) and not in process of morphing into Saas, IMO, snapd shouldnt be there option or no. The GUI package managers are for the most part garbage. RL3 is always safer.
The same user that wants Snaps wants a GUI package manager and like Windoze, silent updates in the background. Its garbage.

I left Ubuntu because of some things revealed by Richard Stallman about the time Snaps became a "thing" and wireshark revealed a lot of traffic that hadnt been there before.

I normally run one machine for testing, and the others on stable as production machines. When the 6/24 testing made a mess of my testing machine I changed it to stable in anticipation of the next stable update.... to check what I thought I saw as a problem in the works. I was wise to have done that, applying the 7/3 stable to it only rather than blindly across all platforms. Glad I did.

The machine running 7/3 right now has crap graphics performance in Plasma, something that magically changed on that machine when it was on testing post the 6/24 update. Not before. The platform has not changed. I have changed a bunch of settings under /etc/x11/ mhwd.d/nvidia.conf and elsewhere to absolutely no avail. Same platform same 7/3 update aside from the fact that XFCE at first looked like a pig in a clown suit, graphics is still good, framerate is still good in glxgears. The Plasma desktop is just about unusable. Why was this garbage fostered on stable?

Some of us use our computers and Linux and Manjaro as platforms for WORK, not just to screw around with. I have spent more time trying to fix the joke that is 7/3 stable on one ONE machine than I have in the last year on all of my production machines on all of the stable updates before 7/3. I enjoy spending time on a testing platform fixing things but garbage does not belong in stable. Period.

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Regarding the quiet thus unusable GRUB: I agree with your rant. Ever since Manjaro went for that, I changed it back to s.th. like Version 17 had it. Involves modding /etc/default/grub and /etc/grub.d/10_linux (filenames may be incorrect, just from the top of my head). Have to do this every time Manjaro puts its own stuff back.

Plus general feelings that are creeping in: Administrating my machines has become quite time consuming due to crappy updates, bugs etc. And reading about the snap, flatpack, appimage developments has become a frustrating perspective. Everybody should go back and read the GNU etc principles again these days. Time is ours, and it‘s limited.

Wrt desktops: Had tested very many distros some time ago and came up with my choice: Manjaro = Xfce, openSUSE = KDE/Plasma. Tumbleweed simply has the better Plasma in place, even now with P 5.16 and Qt 5.13. Must admit though that I dislike their torrential updates.

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111MilestoGo

EXCELLENT post! Thanks very much for being another voice heard on this.

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Thank you! We need to be loud.

Sorry, I was editing in the last paragraph on Manjaro and openSUSE while you reacted.

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Everthing went fine on a fresh (xfce To kde) install after the update broke both my PC and laptop. I don't like what I'm reading though about your feelings that we're looking sight on GNU philosophy... I'm not really aware of all the drama that you mention around canonical and some devs at KDE and that snap thing (don't know what it is yet), but I can see how it can "scare" the newcomers.
Anyway, on the plus side, I always love fixing broken things, but still got a lot to learn. I am trying to debug my laptop crashes here . I'm keeping my laptop "broken" for now so I can learn to fix it. Any help/tips would be nice!

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In linux u r free to use anything u want. There are too many distros to worry. Just switch and no one will hold your hand.

Good luck!

Made my update on Friday(yesterday), and have not seen any problem yet. Still fine as was.

Thanks team

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The issue was found in testing. But the vast majority of reported issues do not result in holding back a package unless it is a major issue like a non-booting system.

If Phil and the team tried to hold back every package that has a bug report, we would be holding back about 100 packages right now. And then someone would have to test those packages to see if new updates fix or does not fix. Our community is not big enough to coordinate something like that. Arch has a much bigger community and they do not do things like that.

I think this is just the nature of rolling release. But sometimes we forget when things are going well just how lucky we are to have a relatively stable rolling release distro most of the time.

(Personally, I am holding some packages about 20% of the time to have a bug-free experience for programs I use daily. After almost 2 years of using Manjaro, this is my expectation. I do not know how people use their system without holding back some packages some of the time. I think they are very lucky or much more flexible than me.)

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Yes. it works now. BTW, logining into ubuntu is not needed, it seems? Because Gnome-online-accounts does not show ubuntu login ... :frowning:

@korealinux

The issue was found in testing. But the vast majority of reported issues do not result in holding back a package unless it is a major issue like a non-booting system.

If Phil and the team tried to hold back every package that has a bug report, we would be holding back about 100 packages right now. And then someone would have to test those packages to see if new updates fix or does not fix.

While i do get it, and even agree to some extent - qt is system level dependency for many of editions (KDE / Deepin etc) and half of the programs (qBittorrent / Cadence etc).

It's definitely something to hold on update unless it's really stable, in my opinion.

Well that's our difference, ain't it? I mean they do it intentionally, they're bleeding edge, we're cutting edge...

I was holding vlc for 5 months, because it had serious blu-ray playback bug, that's one thing....

But holding system-level stuff like systemd / qt or stuff like that on a rolling distro requires some serious knowledge, and pair of balls especially if your DE is using it :upside_down_face:


Also on pamac i completely disagree with it's critics - i think it's really great and very handy to quickly monitor stuff / dependencies etc.

I usually do system upgrades with it, but if some problem arise - it's easy to use pacman / TTY.

So Phil and team are damned if they do, damned if they don't. So for them pushing upstream packages as fast as possible, even if there is some breakage at times, is probably best option.

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But holding system-level stuff like systemd / qt or stuff like that on a rolling distro requires some serious knowledge, and pair of balls especially if your DE is using it

That i meant on user level of course, it was not about release :wink:


So no, i think if we're talking about anything that called Stable branch - hold for system level stuff is must to avoid serious issues for next month of use for anyone.

Other option would be to just go full-on Arch route and be bleeding for everyone all the time...
But i guess it beats the purpose of Manjaro then.

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