Snaps Flatpaks and appImages

  1. Ubuntu OS (they seem to think it's Linux OS as a whole)
  2. Package manager
  3. Software center

Check 2020 press.

You may claim that Microsoft is there to squeeze every bit of non-windows user number that are using Ubuntu and tries to win them back, reality is that market share of Ubuntu on desktop is most probably around 1 percent while Windows dominates market share. If they were try to extinguish non-windows users they would pursue to extinguish Mac users. There is little bit of competition here.

Where did I write that this policy could be restricted to desktop ?
This is the second or third time you infer stuff that weren't even suggested.

Canonical is primarly a BtoB company which happens to have desktop version of it's OS.
they concentrate on Cloud, Infrastructure & IoT (where Linux is absolute leader if not "norm").

But I assume you knew it, didn't you ?

Bill Gates took a 10% share of apple many years ago when apple was going bust, whether they still have that share is anybodies guess but they are trading partners as they are both proprietary.

It's not a guess, but public information.
Bill Gates doesn't seem to have a direct share in Apple anymore*, but Al Gore does.

*but may have via a fund

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Not according to this, but i don't have a clue if accurate or not

Why Microsoft founder Bill Gates owns a $2.7 billion stake in Apple

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-founder-bill-gates-owns-billions-apple-232946230.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALZMMROxBbBAZi10wIXxTd-WA6YnDUM-OhTtfPvyxZTBIoO6nphfcRSMz6tHZAnnvdGk0lCqxTGLpi10-GXXbbGKQY6QSm-bmkDO-LTUp6ljeDKXgOfa-t3a5mOvVEX-E4zWYR63bd1MO89VMyrWqkGGxsFA3NERGRUhgNKwla7h

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All hail to my masters in Microsoft. Of course i knew it. But, pheew you got me there chief.
Seriously, you are being unneccesarily agressive and you should just calm down.

I don't know actually. I don't know that why is there such thing as wsl2. Does it bring any money to Microsoft, is it something to do with their server or cloud(Azure) related job? Who are taking advantage of Wsl? Are they making money out of it? Is it really that game changing? I really don't know (Although i'm guessing you assume that i know everything). I was guessing that directx stuff was not related with servers because most of them already works without gui? I saw their github page where there were demands for such stuff but i haven't read it to be honest. I don't know i am just a reguler desktop user.

Here: DirectX on Linux - what it is/isn't a nice summary from Kernel maintainer.
Developers in the mailing list began to talk about this embrace, extend,estinguish stuff. And i'm guessing it came up because Microsoft developers are not open sourcing directx or bringing stuff to Linux itself. Rather it still requires that you should have it Windows system in wsl. Bringing eee talks into such stuff makes sense.

Yet, i also read it that a microsoft developer were "hypothetically" talking about bringing dx to linux itself without relying on wsl and might even open sourcing it in the future?
Which in that sense eee talks are just a trash and only falsely reading the intention of others that doesn't exist in the first place.

Here: DirectX on Linux, very cool
A tweet from Greg Kroah-Hartman(I am just gonna assume that you know who he is). He seems to think it that it is cool and not necessarly something negative.
What should we do now? Assume the intention of Greg at this point and label him as a cog of Microsoft?(and stop using Linux?)
No it actually mean this.

And for the sake of rules of discussion if you think that opposite side doesn't understand or seems to misunderstood what you have wrote, first thing that you should assume is what you wrote was not clear instead of reading the intention of others.

That is a stretch.

  • He created a philanthropic trust
  • That trust is heavily invested in an investment company
  • That company owns shares of apple

Seriosly, at this point i'm questioning my ability to speak and understand this language. Like, there are words there but when you gather them to be a coherent sentence it doesn't make any sense.

I have three question.

What is trading partner means? I have seen this concept in relation to international relations, between states but i don't know in the context of two unrelated business companies.

What is being proprietary company means? I am googling it and this is the result from wikipedia:

A proprietary company is a form of privately held company in Australia and South Africa that is either limited or unlimited. However, unlike a public company there are, depending on jurisdiction, restrictions on what it can and cannot do.

I don't think this has anything to do with Microsoft or Apple.

And even if they were, how being proprietary makes them trading partners?

T-t-t-t-t-t.
We're not your students, you're not our lecturer.
It's quite funny to see a troll pretending to be hegelian dialectician when he's a vanilla sophist.
...as any sophist, using much to many words.

Now, back to facts (and to thread) :

  • Snaps are ill designed
  • Snaps do tracking
  • Canonical tries to force "snapization", with it's accomplice (M$) tactics.
  • Microsoft tries to "EEE" Linux OS/packages/soft centers (just check their daily 2020 communication)
  • All this is opposed to the basic privacy principles.

Privacy means no data retention and no logging . Period!

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OMG! How did you do that? Caught me in the action, again. I was trying to doctrinate all you youngsters through my recommendations yet i got caugt in action again. Seriously man, you must be Schopenhaur or something.
Believe me though, I am more of a Hegel than a vanilla sophist since clearly you just don't understand what i'm trying to say here. Magnificent. :astonished: :roll_eyes:

Anyway. I am not here for personal stuff. I am not here to defend Microsoft or Canonical but i will ask you to expand what you write in here.

What do you mean by ill design?

Are there any example for this "snapization" that has been forced by Canonical? For instance do you think that Canonical is giving money to distro developers of Manjaro or Solus so that these distros would adopt snaps by default?

For the second time you write that "just check their daily 2020 communication". I don't know what that is. Could you give source for that? Nothing comes up when i search for Microsoft 2020 daily communication.

As far as I know what you called as tracking by Canonical only simple statistics about which program has been downloaded, how many times. So again if there is another stuff that made you write data retention there must be clearly stuff that you know that i don't.
I am begging you though, please tell me if Canonical and Microsoft spying on me about my, full of German Idealism browsing history (I know it is very kinky :disappointed:).

For example, statically linked dependencies.

This is wrong. They also collect usage statistics, with identifiable information. They know which snaps you installed and every time you used them. And you have only their word that they won't sell that data to Amazon or whomever.

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I am in no technical position to say anything good or bad about this. I'll just take your word for it. What might be their reason for such design choice though?

I must have missed something. Are there any statement from them or any documentation that shows that they are recording things like whenever we used which snap apps?

You must not have read this entire thread, the link you are requesting has already been posted.

Regarding statically linked dependencies, this has also been discussed ad nauseam, e.g.

This is the link you probably were talking about. I have already read it when you first posted it and this is not the thing I am asking for.
It says here:

To accomplish this, the store assigns an anonymous identifier, the device-serial, to every new snapd client it sees.

What I'm asking is not this though. This is miniscule and not even important, not the mention how useful this for app developers. Other websites worries me more. They don't have only my anonymous identity but my real identity, which is being used for selling personalized ads to me, and to everyone else. However, there is a legal side of this story. What other websites does is not illegal. I am agreeing their terms when I am surfing in their websites or using their service. They are also legally allowed to sell my data to other companies. This is all in their terms of service documents.

So, this is what I understand: snap or canonical has no control over what I'm doing with my snap application. They have only the information about when i did installed, in which frequency i used this application, from which region I downloaded this app. And this is all done through anonymous identity given to my computer. and not through my real identity, which would be illegal.

I understand when someone claims that this does not fits to free, open source software philosophy therefore they will not use. This is perfectly valid reason.

However what I am asking is actually backing your claims.
I want to see example of how they are using Microsoft tactics("EEE") to take over Linux world.
I want to see how they can sell my data to Amazon, when there is not even a personalized data or a data that can be useful to Amazon to begin with. Here is what you wrote:

"This is wrong. They also collect usage statistics, with identifiable information."

My identifiable information. This is where either i miss something or we misunderstand what this words means.

And yeah when it comes to statically linked dependencies: Again I respect anyone who doesn't want to use snap because of this. But as I wrote above, this thing fixes many problem in regards to proprietrary softwares, not the mention, this is basically great opportunity for distros like OpenSuse, Ubuntu, ElementaryOs that have LTS versions for release but want to a updated softwares. Basically it is a design choice but not only that it is the main selling point for snap.

Anonymous identifier is an oxymoron.

But hey, if you're fine with being tracked, I'm fine with you being tracked. I don't understand why are you using Linux, but I don't really care :man_shrugging:

This is turning out to be really funnier than I expected.

Yes king I like being tracked. In fact, I was using Windows, but one day, I thought to myself, hey am I being tracked enough? The answer was no. So I came to Linux with the hope that I would be tracked even more but there is a lot of work to do here.
Whenever I have to use Firefox or something I close content blocking when I am surfing. I forcefully use http instead of https. Because all the websites and services deserves my informations. My soul belongs to them. All hail to Google and all hail to Amazon.

I was trying to defend Canonical and Microsoft because I was hoping that someday they would realize my good deeds in here and would hire me, my overlords. Bu here we are again. Caught in action. What are you gonna do right? :man_shrugging:

Your satire is almost indistinguishable from your serious posting. You are making fun of yourself better than I could.

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Indeed. But they probably don't want to use the word pseudonym, because many people never heard about it.

3.3.43 privacy - The right of individuals to control or influence what information related to them may be collected and stored and by whom and to whom that information may be disclosed. Note – Because this term relates to the right of individuals, it cannot be very precise and its use should be avoided except as a motivation for requiring security.
-- X.800 : Security architecture for Open Systems Interconnection for CCITT applications

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OK, I think we have reached a point in this conversation where we either need to get back on topic or close it.

Let's please turn this back to the topic of a discussion of flatpaks, snaps and appimages.

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