Reinstate Manjaro 32-bit editions & help save the environment ..?

Instead of throwing away or changing a computer as it gets older, it's more environmentally-friendly to change the OS to extend it's life. It's also saves money. Changing Windows OS to Linux already extends computer shelf-life in a significant way, but this could be extended further by keeping 32-bit kernels. Extending the life of a PC for as long as possible is important, as end-of-life recycling of electronics waste (such as computers), is a nightmare because of the composite materials involved. Such waste often ends up in landfill, adding to an already alarming state of environmental pollution and degradation.

However, as everyone here knows, many older computers wont run efficiently, or will not run at all, with 64-bit operating systems. Given the heightened sense of environmental awareness these days, it's a great shame to see MJ (and other distros) dropping 32-bit support. I know Jonathan still maintains MJ-xfce 32-bit, but could this not be extended to other MJ editions ?

Pause for thought ...

you forget that ,
cpu 64bits start to be sell in 2008,
you have to watch more carefully on buy , avoid limitation memory 4Go and theses cpu

Don't forget, those computers also provide a poor experience with 32bit OS. The real question IMHO is "how many will install a 32bit Manjaro (rolling) to save the environment, instead of buying a new one with better performance?".

Both of you mention "buy" or "Buying". :thinking: ... Many (?) millions of people in the majority of the world are able to buy a i7 based box?

The question is: What is our social responsibility viz developing peoples, and our consumer (hedonistic ? ) responsibility viz our planet?

I am not trying to start a fight or go ot... :peace:

p.s.

... and thanks @ jonathon

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What kind of limit is that and who set it? i7? Really? That's what is needed to browse internet today?

It is already very difficult to install and maintain a rolling distro for a non-techie. How many on this target group will be able to get in this trouble?

If you can't stop an abusing government, save the environment. :seedling:

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You are right. Good night...
got to walk the dog in the am.
:zzz:

This is what Debian exists for. :+1:

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Just install any edition you want with manjaro-architect using 32bit xfce iso. Most of them should install without issues.

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I haven't looked into computers specifically, but doesn't technology often get more energy efficient as it develops? Perhaps the waste saved by running a computer until it breaks beyond repair is lost in keeping it switched on. Sure, the pollutants are different, but pollutants they are.

Keeping Manjaro 32-bit running is only one component of the ecological impact of a user's computer. Is your 32-bit, environment-saving PC connected to a green-energy power source or fossil fuel? Does it make use of servers that are not connected to green-energy sources, i.e. cloud storage that HAS to be switched on whether you use it or not? Being as cloud storage is an extension to a user's PC, I class it as being a HDD/SSD in the same PC; its power and raw materials consumption is effectively the user's as well, so you'd better make sure that any cloud servers are running old 32-bit infrastructure and not been upgraded for a decade also.

While I do like your reasoning and desire to help the planet, I wonder just how much help it is being given.

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Given the decreasing level of education of envirinmental activists these days we need serious people to get listened to.

I don't think it is the right thing to do to criticize the maintainers of a Linux distro that they don't support some type of hardware. It's their own free decission and are usually more educated to make this decission based on their own cost vs. benefit considerations than some wannabe environmentalist.

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Performance-Per-Watt & How The Raspberry Pi 2 + Pi Zero Compare To Old NetBurst CPUs
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=raspberry-pi-burst&num=1

TLDR
Overall these results were interesting. In terms of raw performance, the Raspberry Pi 2 was performing in some CPU-bound tests better than the Celeron D 320 (2.4GHz) processor but in no test did a Raspberry Pi beat out the old Pentium 4 C NetBurst processor. When it came to power efficiency, the Raspberry Pi devices shined and were many times more efficient than these old Socket 478 processors. However, when comparing the results to newer Broadwell and Bay Trail processors, not only was the modern Intel hardware faster but it was also more power efficient than the two tested Raspberry Pi development boards.

Kudos for @Manjaro-ARM Team, BTW! They are providing an OS which makes people want to buy and use environmentally friendly ARM computers.

However, there are of course some 32bit machines which work just fine for their use case and don't consume too much energy: old Atom netbooks, old VIA CPU thin clients. But if a distro decides to focus on 64bit architecture it is their decission which is to respect. There is enough space for other distributions to fill this ecological niche of 32bit hardware.

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Thanks for the link. :slight_smile: :open_book:

This is not a new problem. I mean, how many people still use a Dragon 32, BBC, Sinclair ZX-81, Atari XE range, etc. Yeah, the technology is too old for today's computing, but the same arguments could have been raised back then as the home-computer market grew.
The biggest change, I think, was when electronics became 'disposable'. Manufacturer warranties of only 12 months don't help. Electronics should be guaranteed to last a long time not a year. When the cost of repair is more than replacing, well, that's not right if people are to use things for longer.

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The MJ team and maintainers do an absolutely great job - I would be the first person to say this !

I just wanted to raise the issue of 32-bit & the environment generally, (which is why I said MJ + some other distros) and to provoke some thought and discussion on an important subject. Clearly, judging from the response, that aim has been achieved. No personal criticism of MJ's team & maintainers was intended at all, and I apologise if it was interpreted in that light.

A great idea - I hadn't thought of that ! :sunglasses:

What do you think about Arch team then? It was them who decided to drop 32bit.

I would defend them with two arguments:

  • Having seen the difficulties which the archlinux32 team often has that some packages won't build I can understand that having to troubleshoot i686 specific issues was increasingly becoming a pain for Arch maintaines.
  • The archlinux32 team was and is getting help from Arch team members where possible.
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yes, eventually the environmental hit of producing a new machine using finite resources and of course the carbon used in fabrication to power the tooling etc. is outweighed by the better efficiency of the new hardware.

Take a 2007 AMD Athlon X2 4400+ (110W TDP) for example compared to my current AMD Athlon 5350 (25W TDP). The 5350 is quad core and far outperforms the old socket 939 processor even though the memory controller is only single channel and uses a fraction of the power with the built in R3 GPU. The old Athlon needed either an on motherboard GPU or a discrete card. Plus there's the SSD versus HDD power savings. Couple all that with getting everything done much quicker and you are saving a shed load of energy usage.

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I don't know how many people are actually using the 32bit stuff anymore. I realize some people do, otherwise or wouldn't exist at all. But at some point in the life of virtually all products, you have to ask would the time/resources be better spent elsewhere?

32 bit stuff is bordering on computer enthusiast people at this point. It's just like people who love old cars. It will always exist, but Ford isn't out still making parts for the model T, even though I can go to a car show and see some of them.

Change is the one great constant we have in this world.

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Consider that those performance-per-Watt tests from Phoronix I quoted above are done with extreme workloads where more powerful machines will lead.
But typical real usage patterns have much idle and stand-by time. And here you will save significant amounts of energy per annum with low-power machine.

However reading this article


I'm tempted to open a LO Calc sheet and start a calculation...

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actually a lot of people in developing countries use old refurbished 32-bit machines which have either been donated or sold to them for next to nothing. they are the ones that will ultimately lose out as and when the 32-bit distributions are gone across the board. That includes Windows as well as Linux since I doubt MS will bother much longer maintaining support for the legacy architecture either.

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