Pamac to rule them all (AUR, Snaps, Flatpaks, Appimages)


This feature was requested before. Here are the previous posts: link1 link2

I'm posting this because there is a hot debate on making snapd and snap-store pre-installed.

Feature request details:

  • Search results should be shown in seperate categories like we currently have with AUR. gnome-software (or Ubuntu software center) shows search results all together and that's not good because there are duplicates of same software and not easily distinguishable.
  • We should have "Other app stores" or "External app stores" tab in preferences window. In this tab, there should be a brief explanation of these external app stores. (like the AUR explanation) In this tab, we should be able to easily enable/disable/configure app stores. Default state (enabled/disabled) is debatable.
  • As far as I know, in order Pamac to search for updates in the background, pamac-tray has to be active. That's really good because user has the control over automatic update checks. This is especially important when playing ping-sensitive games, or when internet data usage is limited, one can easily close pamac-tray. This approach should be applied to external app store update checks too. If pamac-tray is closed, there must be no background update checks.

So what's your opinions about this? I think in this way, everyone can be happy with having options. If one doesn't like Canonical, it can be disabled with an easy switch. And other distros will be jealous of a god-like package manager GUI like this.

As I see in the previous feature request threads, pamac developers had thought about implementing this. I hope that this is still in the agenda.

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Please keep the discussion on this topic related to the feature request itself and not your opinions on snaps/flatpaks/appimages. There is already a thread for that here for that debate.

Any off-topic comments will be deleted.

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I like the idea of separating it into its own category. This has nothing to do with perception for me, it has to do with neatness and being able to easily scan the side to see which category I'm in. Usability UI/UX design that is thoughtful, makes me happy.

Yes. If this were to be integrated into Pamac, I would be very disappointed if a preferences tab wasn't there.

Agreed

I'll believe that when I see it. :stuck_out_tongue:

As do I.

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sure, as long as support for these formats is an OPTIONAL depend of pamac.

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that it's a good way of making a great package manager a not so great package manager. i use pamac for searching only and pacman to handle package install/uninstall/update, adding a bunch of snaps to search results for users to weed though to get to packages they may actually want doesnt improve pamac and just insists the idea manjaro may be transitioning into an arch based ubuntu :man_facepalming:

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Thanks for the perspective but it'll be all optional. Will this feature make you upset anyway?

upset? no. prefer it not to be? yes. change is great if that change is better for the whole. the problem with that is that the term "better" is subjective. having the option to disable it from pamac settings should be an option at the very least. using snaps on a fixed release makes sense, on a rolling release not so much. the whole thing should be optional but it is what it is i guess.

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Good point but there are some usage to external app stores as I read in other threads:

  • Sometimes external app stores give updated software faster.
  • Sandboxing
  • Some AUR packages takes time and cpu resources to build. External stores provide pre-built packages.

I completely agree with you about "the whole thing should be optional".

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it also takes time and resources to download and install external packages as well.
But really you should not be using a rolling release if that is what you believe any old fixed release would do that way it would be like using windows is that what you want Linux to be if so Linux will just die.

Some AUR packages require building from source code which takes more time and resources.

By "ubuntu" do you mean "easy"? I think Manjaro is already an easy Arch based distro with the GUI tools like Pamac and MSM. Pamac already provides easy usage of AUR. Adding external app resources to it is just a step forward IMO.

imo, while it'd be kinda nice to have a package manager to do EVERYTHING for everyone, it'll also mean more work for the maintainer/s to fix all of the bugs. So it's up to the maintainer/s. And we'd have to port it to pamac-qt.

I don't personally use pamac though. I only use pacui.

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having good tools is not the same. they have endless ppa's and an endless supply of outdated software in which case snaps make sense, we have an awesome up to date repo and aur access where included/enabled snaps makes little sense. pamac get's a lot of praise for being one of the best package managers and adding snaps to it IMO would make it a less great package manager.

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This^^^

Generally I only use Pamac for searching packages as well. I do not want container apps mixed in with real package search results as I have no use for them.

If they are not, and this wouldn't degrade pamac too badly I guess as long as the functions are able to be separated and disabled. Although I have a suspicion that adding all these extra features will considerably reduce the speed and reliability of pamac. As you make everything more complex the reliability is bound to suffer IMO. More complex = more bugs and less reliability. To me this is just extra bloat that will degrade an already reliable package manager.

The other thing not brought up yet is, who is going to develop/implement and then debug all this stuff. There are 2 versions of Pamac, and the Qt version has just gone beta and is not even finished. Who are you volunteering to do ail this extra work, because if it's not you, then I think this is a totally unfair expectation.

If you seriously think this is a legitimate request that others want then you and those of similar mind should put your money where your mouth is. Do you really think it's fair to put this on the backs of the volunteers currently developing and maintaining pamac. Start a crowd funding drive to pay a developer to work on this wish list if that is truly your desire.

Every new user to Manjaro seems to think this is Ubuntu with a paid development staff. It's not, and if your not prepared to do the work required for all these dream features then buck the hell up and pay someone to do the work.

Manjaro is developed by volunteers. If you're not prepared to volunteer and do the work your self, then how is it fair for you to expect someone else to be volunteered by you to do your bidding.

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Calm down man. You can be too harsh sometimes. I'm just making a feature request. If developers like the idea and want the feature for themselves too, they may work on it. If I had the coding skills required, I would happily work on this. Maybe I'll have the required skills in future and contribute. I'm not ordering/commanding developers to do anything. I opened this thread just to kindly request a feature and see if any other users want it too. Also, seeing objections to the request and the reasons behind helps me understand the community better.

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I am not being too harsh. How long have you used community based distros? This is not a commercially funded organization. It is developed by volunteers.

See how many people jump up and down to do work for you for free in the real world. That's not the way things work in life.

Every other day someone starts posting how Manjaro should implement this, or implement that feature request. Do all you new users seriously think this is Red hat with a billion dollar income and a huge development staff.

I'm rather tired of the new users expectations of entitlement shortly after they started using Manjaro to be honest. After a while you get tired of the endless parade of I want this, Ubuntu has that, Mint does this. It gets old rather quickly. After you've been on the forum more than a few months you'll know what I mean.

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Interesting, I didn't read any of @tbg's response to be manic.

Everyone has made great points so far. Perhaps in my first reply I held back too much. I saw @dalto notice and thought I should comment only on the merits of such features being suggested but I went to far, as I do. :expressionless:
They aren't bad ideas in and of themselves.

Do I want this included into pamac? Nope. Pamac-qt is still under development and I think this would make it's development considerably longer if it was added.
Pamac does it's job just fine. Let app containers be in Discovery and whatever the gnome one is and let packages be pacman/pamac.

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So what is the point of a "Manjaro Development > Feature Request" forum category? Isn't it for suggesting features? Or as you say "I want this or that". Or better "I want this, others may want this too, maybe some developers want this too, maybe some of them want to work on it." I thought that this was the way community-centric distros are.
Edit: I don't really understand the instant objections like yours.

I agree. These kind of posts are common and frustrating.

That being said, there is a difference between entitled demands and honest requests in the feature requests section. "Wouldn't it be great if this feature existed?" is very different than the typical "Why don't you have this feature that I am used to?", or worse, "How stupid are you for not having this functionality?"

Now, back to the topic at hand. There have been quite a few people requesting this. Personally, I am indifferent. Having a single view into all the package formats is interesting and serves an obvious purpose. It would be especially great to get a list of installed software regardless of how you installed it. However, if you spend some time in discover or gnome-software with flatpaks and snaps enabled it does seem very confusing. Adding AUR and AppImages to the mix wouldn't make it simpler.

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When you spend enough time here you will see a repeating cycle. New joiners come in requesting things be changed to be like the distro they are familiar with, often in a demanding/entitled manner. Some stay, some leave. The ones that stay often end up on opposite side of the fence arguing against the change.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not saying that is what you are doing.

Combine that with the fact that this topic is currently very heated in general due to the recently announced inclusion of snap support by default.