Murmur broken after Stable Update

EDIT: This was moved here, and I was not even given a chance to reply since the thread was closed before I even saw the thread because I check forums every 1-2 days. This is really unacceptable and says a lot about the people behind Manjaro, I'm done here since this is not going anywhere, the thread has been locked without even giving me a chance to say anything. What are the forums for really? Why was the thread moved just to be closed the next day? Blatant abuse of power.

Just for the record, what really seems off to me is a broken package (not a regular bug in the software itself) being pushed to the stable branch like this. And about the Arch bug tracker, surely if Manjaro is grabbing a lot of packages from Arch it would be a good idea to have a look there. I'm not very familiar with their bug tracker, but I bet there are rss feeds, email notifications, filters or other things to make it more manageable. In the off chance this is not at all possible there are still a few other things to try.

There are many steps involved in pushing an update from source code all the way to stable repos, and I guarantee you a broken package that fails to start 10 out of 10 times in every setup is never a good thing and something is wrong somewhere and there are several things you can do to improve the situation. All I see here are excuses like an example of a completely different issue in Ubuntu, poor attitudes and overreacting. Again I'm not 100% familiar with Manjaro's updating process so I'm probably missing some things, but I'm certain this is an important issue that needs to be addressed in some way. It's a rolling release distro, but there still has to be something to do that doesn't require enormous amount of time and effort to prevent people from receiving broken packages for days (sometimes weeks?) after a stable update.

[Continuing from [Stable Update] 2019-05-26 - Kernels, XFCE 4.14-pre1, Virtualbox, LibreOffice]

That makes sense, I guess Manjaro just isn't as stable I thought it was. Sounds like the package was automatically pushed to testing/unstable/or whatever other branch to be part of the next update, no one even did the most basic kind of testing (just trying to start the program) for around 4 days and then this happened. That package version was in the arch repos for almost a month before the bug report. I know it's not a super popular package, but it's still concerning how little testing some packages can get.

As for Arch, it got fixed really quickly after the bug report while in Manjaro for some reason it's still broken after around 3 days. This is not an issue for me, I can just downgrade the package. But I can't expect newer users to have to deal with these kind of things. I'll probably stick with Manjaro, but I don't see myself recommending it to anyone who isn't willing to deal with broken packages from time to time.

please get involved with testing then, why should anyone not maintaining the package test something we never use? we don't have to install something just because someone else might use it. you are clearly expecting too much.

the core manjaro team consists of eight people, they cannot be expected to catch everything especially when the package concerned is not manjaro specific. manjaro is not a commercial enterprise, they like the majority of users have full-time jobs, families and lives away from the distribution.

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I am on Unstable, but I haven't signed any kind of testing agreement when switching to it. This is a first time I see this package (murmur is a funny name btw -- in Russian this sound is used to describe cat's sounds like "mrr" -- not purring, not meowing, but something in between), so I haven't ever used it.
What I mean is Testing and Unstable users are just "common people". They test what they use. There's no some special team of "testers" for Manjaro.

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I'm very unlikely to ever get involved in testing or helping if these are the responses I get when pointing out a valid, important issue. I'm not the only one either, I've seen this happen at least once elsewhere in another thread. This is worrying because instead of fixing an issue the Manjaro team or community here seems to take it in a personal way and even refuse to acknowledge the issue.

Broken packages are being pushed to the stable branch. It is manjaro specific. When you ask a Manjaro user, you will get told it's stable. Just because the package is originally from Arch and the mistake came from there it doesn't mean everything's perfect here and we get to blame them instead. That doesn't fix anything and doesn't improve the situation. I'm not 100% familiar with Manjaro's update process, but it doesn't sound right to me to grab a non-working package from Arch, push it to a branch outside stable, wait 4 days not noticing an important bug report + fix in Arch's bug tracker and just consider it stable enough because no one said anything. If there aren't enough users in testing/unstable branches to notice things like these then 4 days is clearly not enough, specially for programs that not everyone is constantly using.

Rolling release is always in testing, even stable branch. Thank you for pointing out the bug. But if you want the most stability, a rolling release distro is not the best choice.

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You are an edge case. Mainstream software obviously has a reasonable amount of users looking for bugs in testing. I've never even heard of the software your complaining about.

Seriously there's over 40, 000 different software packages in the AUR alone. Do you expect every piece of software ever produced is going to get a thorough testing. Give your head a shake.

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Just to clarify, murmur is in the official repositories; it's a package that is imported from Arch Linux Stable.

The problem is simply that the original maintainer missed to do a needed rebuild on time back then. The problem got solved on Arch Linux side like one day after the last big update set on Testing, and therefore, we barely missed the fixed package on Testing by merely one day.

Since no one used that package on Testing, no one foresaw this issue before Stable received updates and thus, got a regression on this package.

Ok, so not only we are supposed to do the "most basic testings" on 10 000+ packages on a almost daily basis (which would take already a good amount of time in itself, and it would not even cover all kind of issues and regressions that could happen), but we are also supposed to follow ALL Arch Linux bug tracker closely just in case there is a breakage in one random obscure package that we never heard of before.

Lol please be honest with me, are you trolling (if so, then I got 100% baited) or you are legitimately asking for such godly level of awareness?

If you can manage to do that in addition to working, sleeping, eating, etc., please go on Testing or Unstable. I'll praise you as a god, I swear.

And you said it youself, you consider there is not enough testing. Raise up the level then, show us the way.

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I get it's in the repo's I'm just a little flabbergasted at some peoples level of expectations from a free community driven project.

If you never want to encounter bugs go for a static server distro running kernel 3.16.

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I don't know, I still remember the moment when Ubuntu, despite all their employees and free testers and despite being a fixed-release distro, published to the public a version (17.10) that could literally corrupt the firmware of some computers. "How could they let that happen, don't they test their ■■■■ ?"


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Again:

  1. Manjaro holds the same quality as several corporate supported projects. I have never had more problems with Manjaro (disregarding issues I provoke myself, like insisting on using Testing or Unstable, never stable (basically)) than I have had with Suse or Fedora.
    For such a small team it's frakking amazing.*

  2. The leaping distros are only stable after a number of patches. That's always the case. There is a reason the wisdom is (regarding Fedora, but goes for all of them): "Never EVER upgrade until at LEAST 1 week, preferably 2 weeks". There are always big bugs.

*The only distro(s) I have had a more stable experience with is the ones so close to Debian Stable that they basically ARE Debian stable (MX Linux for example).

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It is annoying if something you are using breaks, for sure.
But you have to take into account how small the core team is. Maybe, if more people would donate there would be enough room for for example extensive automated testing servers for such edge-cases or something.
I don't want to belittle your problem, but maybe your expectations to a small, community driven, rolling distro are a bit off?
I think the manjaro-team does an amazing job - every major issue (while those are rare enough already) is normaly solved in a matter of hours. :+1:

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https://lists.manjaro.org/pipermail/manjaro-packages/Week-of-Mon-20190527/022890.html

"Stable" does not mean, has never meant, and will never mean "never breaks".

If you rely on a package then it's up to you to test the package before it impacts on you OR you have to pay for someone to do it for you.

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