Manjaro Plasma X11 vs. Wayland

Continuing the discussion from Did Manjaro KDE switched to Wayland?:

Perhaps the default session in sddm.conf on the ISO is set to X11?

I am playing around with the kwin window manager on lxqt and a couple a days ago I decided to install plasma desktop in addition to see how stable it is for my use case - and to see if I could get some or all those issues I read about when running KDE Plasma.

I am very selective and doing this as a manual process - pinpointing issues is often easier when you don’t make big changes at once - I discovered that I needed two different sessions for running either X11 or Wayland as others have spotted - if you don’t have a default session in sddm.conf the sessions are listed alphabetically which is a sensible choice.

There is a guy holding a grudge since some major disputes 7 years ago - long before my time.

This guy (Ebuzz centtral) is throwing tomatoes and other vegetable at Manjaro because his system defaulted to load the wayland session instead of x11 which made his ego suffer because he couldn’t make videos like he used to.

The usablitiy of screen recording software those lense bugs uses is a recurring Wayland issus and has nothing to with Manjaro.

There is a few guys out there which is very vocal and is holding grudge for a long time - I really pity them - it must be a miserable life when you only have hate to give.

So don’t feed the trolls.

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Thanks @linux-aarhus for the clarification. I didn’t want to comment here but I have to point out that there were numerous requests on this forum by users in the past of ‘How can I try Wayland on Manjaro KDE’. Now they have the option to try it out of the box when they install it. To me this is a step forward. The other things by some people are just temporary noise.

Wayland on KDE has made a big step with Plasma 5.24 release and has become quite usable and it will become even better with version 5.25.

Exactly as you say! Software compatibility is the main improvement area at the moment with Wayland. Nothing to do with Manjaro.
Good job and thanks to Manjaro team for your hard work!

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…and we dropped it again for now, will be back after I’ll find time to make sddm default to X11. It’s too early to use it as not all the software is adopted…

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During my quick tests on my real computer yesterday, I found out some programs who can (edit) NOT run ‘normally’ on Wayland so yeah it is not perfect yet. But it works way better than my last tests with Nvidia (it wasn’t even rendering right click menus properly, nowadays the desktop is usable at least).

I noticed that copy/paste between host and virtualbox guests doesn’t work on Wayland (Plasma).

Another user had issues with vmware and found the system used wayland - switched to X11 fixed the issue.

I want to know if the work of turning KDE plasma to fully support wayland is KDE’s work or Manjaro team’s work. Is there anything Manjaro team can contribute to this?

For example, fonts on the internet will look blurred if I use Firefox + Wayland

You got it wrong - it is the Wayland philosphy which creates these issues as Wayland implements a completely different security mechanism for inter window communication.

So it is not a matter of KDE adapting but a matter of when Wayland is ready.

If you want more insight you should invest some time in understanding why Wayland exist as Wayland tries to fix what is described as security concers with the Xorg server.

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Software compatibility also depends on Wayland and different desktop environment too.
For example: SMPlayer does not work in KDE wayland, but it works fine in Gnome Wayland that I have tested myself.

There is a interesting thing, copy/paste text and drag$drop file work ok in Gnome Wayland (Gnome X11 as guest in VirtualBox).
It looks like Gnome Wayland was already developed ahead of KDE Wayland.

For what it’s worth, I switched my old IvyBridge / Intel graphics Dell laptop over to KDE Wayland (also to modesetting and Mesa crocus drivers).

After some Google searching and viewing Manjaro tutorials / Arch wiki, I have Firefox and Chromium hardware acceleration running in full Wayland mode. Firefox and Pamac both looked terrible initially but I found (more Googling!) that I was missing a gtk related package for Wayland so that issue was fixed.

So no complaints here! Snappy and stable at least on older Intel hardware. Looking forward to future Plasma updates for even more improvements to the KDE Wayland experience!

Yes - I can see I expressed myself badly - of course it is also a matter of implementing things the wayland way - and from your experience it seems like Gnome is further in the process of implementing Wayland than KDE.

I saw a troll spamming the arch/,manjaro Facebook page with that video, saying the devs had created a toxic environment and had been stealing other devs work,(not sure how you steal open source). Ive only been here 2 years and have had disagreements with team members but certainly nothing toxic. Imagine being able to go on Microsoft forums and being able to have a conversation with Bill Gates?

Like you said the trolls really do need to get a life, I was surprised by Ebuzz though as his previous videos had been complimentary about manjaro

Yes it does of course as they use different implementation methods. I am no expert but AFAIK for KDE they enhanced KWIN while Gnome uses Mutter. Reference in both cases will be Weston. Then we have QT vs. GTK. KDE still has some work to do to run X programs properly under Wayland. Maybe software creators are faster to get rid of XWayland process. I doubt it.
Gnome has the bigger push on it that’s why they are ahead.

Btw. Virtualbox in full screen mode under (KDE) Wayland host and (KDE) Wayland guest creates the biggest issues for me.

I am a little confused here - just checked with my system - why is Xwayland loaded? I am fairly new at using kwin myself so I am not aware of the intricasies of the KDE universe - so it is probably lack of knowledge as my system using kwin shows a similar output and I have explicitly tried to avoid Wayland

Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Ellesmere [Radeon Pro WX 7100] driver: amdgpu v: kernel
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.3 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.1 driver: X:
    loaded: amdgpu unloaded: modesetting gpu: amdgpu
    resolution: 5120x1440~120Hz
  OpenGL: renderer: AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 Graphics (polaris10 LLVM 13.0.1
    DRM 3.42 5.15.33-1-MANJARO)
    v: 4.6 Mesa 22.0.1

Further investigation shows that freerdp dependending on wayland which in turn pulls other kde

could not satisfy dependencies:
- removing kwayland breaks dependency 'kwayland' required by breeze
- removing wayland breaks dependency 'wayland' required by freerdp
- removing qt5-wayland breaks dependency 'qt5-wayland' required by kguiaddons
- removing wayland-utils breaks dependency 'wayland-utils' required by kinfocenter
- removing kwayland-server breaks dependency 'kwayland-server' required by kwin
- removing lib32-wayland breaks dependency 'lib32-wayland' required by lib32-libva

I have also freerdp and kwayland installed, but my system seems not to use Wayland:

Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA TU116 [GeForce GTX 1660 Ti] vendor: Micro-Star MSI
    driver: nvidia v: 510.54 alternate: nouveau,nvidia_drm pcie: gen: 2
    speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 16 link-max: gen: 3 speed: 8 GT/s bus-ID: 01:00.0
    chip-ID: 10de:2182 class-ID: 0300
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.3 compositor: kwin_x11 driver: X:
    loaded: nvidia gpu: nvidia display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 4240x1440 s-dpi: 90 s-size: 1197x416mm (47.13x16.38")
    s-diag: 1267mm (49.89")
  OpenGL: renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 Ti/PCIe/SSE2
    v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 510.54 direct render: Yes

Thank you :slight_smile:

So even if one does not use wayland - several components depend on it - likely utilized only when actually using wayland.

I can live with that.

What if you remove the xwayland related package?

Thank you - that was a good hint

sudo pacman -Rns xorg-xwayland  plasma-wayland-session

Now I have

Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Ellesmere [Radeon Pro WX 7100] driver: amdgpu v: kernel
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.3 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu
    unloaded: modesetting gpu: amdgpu resolution: 5120x1440~120Hz
  OpenGL: renderer: AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 Graphics (polaris10 LLVM 13.0.1
    DRM 3.42 5.15.34-1-MANJARO)
    v: 4.6 Mesa 22.0.1

I found this thread after searching for the status of Wayland on Manjaro. I don’t follow the details of KDE like I use too, but I get the highlights by the type of questions people ask on this Discourse forum (which is how I knew konsole defaults to zsh and I could easily change it to bash).

I needed to test some software on KDE, so I brought up a new KDE VM (manjaro-kde-21.2.6-220416-linux515). I prefer XOrg, but I thought I saw on this forum that Manjaro was using Wayland. After the install, I went searching on the system for the status. Not seeing what I expected to see, I searched this forum for information. The original thread (datedMarch 30) left me scratching my head, because the solution said “what has changed with the new ISOs is that plasma-wayland-session is installed now by default and that gives you the option to choose between Wayland and X11 on the logon screen (lower left corner).”

imho, clear, concise, timely, communication goes a long way in reducing a lot of issues. One way or another, as much as possible, just let Manjaro users know in a timely manner, so they in turn can prepare to make changes for themselves and the user’s and communities they may support.

This is an awesome site for staying current on all things KDE and Wayland: This week in KDE.

This comment indicates that Wayland session has been removed for future ISO

That said - one can appreciate the opportunity - but given the state of Wayland - I can appreciate the removal.

The option of changing desktop session and the consequenses of chosing wayland over X11 is never obivous - one should think that an experienced user like eBuzz would know the difference - but loves to flame and throw tomates at the actor.

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