Manjaro in YT video about Linux Gaming WENDELL from Level1Techs

I disagree with him that Manjaro will break eventually. That's a too big oversimplification. There is a possibility for that, especially in hands of newbies but my 4 years old Manjaro experience tells me that it can be a very stable and good system for overall home usage and also for gaming.

Still, Manjaro is not completely for newbies and it won't ever be but he might hit the nail about power users.

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Everything will break, eventually. Even the universe. It's all about entropy.

But - if you're this fatalistic about an OS then you're probably doing life wrong... :rofl:


More seriously, it also depends on what you define as "break". For example, upstream software changes can "break" old configuration files. There's not much Manjaro can do about that, and it's "part-and-parcel" of a rolling-release distro (or any distro if you re-use old configuration).

If you want a gaming platform which won't "break" (until they release a new platform and stop supporting the old one) then you buy a games console.

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Even those break. Games are broken all the time too. Everything is broken. Let's just stop everything. :pleading_face:

@korealinux, cheer up, the sun is shining... well, at least where I am, life is great :smiley: . And now repeat! :wink:

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As a Linux Newbie myself (I installed Manjaro last night) I have found Manjaro to be the most user friendly version I have tried out to date. I previously tried out versions of SUSE Linux and Mandrake Linux back in the late 1990's and early 2000's but found the learning curve too steep and Ubuntu when Windows 10 was being released (I found that to be actually harder to use than the earlier versions).

Thus far, with the exceptions of my external audio interface and my original XBOX controller (which I just have not gotten around to setting up yet) everything has been quite easy and I have only had one lock up thus far.

I have only had to touch the CLI for updating the system which I was able to follow a guide for and otherwise have been able to stick to the KDE GUI for everything else which is so much more noob / Windows refugee friendly than any other Linux distro I have come across to date.

In comparison with Ubuntu where the interface was so basic that for any system admin you had to turn to the CLI where you faced the issue that a lot of the commands had changed over time so a lot of the guides you could find on things like configuring surround sound were wrong for the current version. I spent 2 days trying to configure surround sound, got it working and it was knocked out by an automatic update a few hours later. I then went back to Windows thinking that Linux was terrible and the people who went on about how easy it is to use were delusional.

Honestly, at this point, it seems to be a really good version for a relatively experienced migrating user.

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Just remember to have a) system backup, b) your data backup (a user home directory). Manjaro as any rolling release is unpredictable and for some it's super stable, for others it may not, so just be prepared, read Announcement sections before update and you will be a happy Manjaro user :slight_smile:.
Also, as a newbie, be ready to break your install by experimenting and doing something stupid... it's a part of a learning curve. Usually, 1-2 breakages are normal (if you are adventurous type) before you get a hang on it.
Once you learn how backup system works and how to restore data simply (timeshift, rsync/grsync), how to access tty or chroot Manjaro in live USB, you will a pro at handling rolling system :wink: . Things are more interesting on Arch/Manjaro side then on Ubuntu/Debian side and also more rewarding.

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Really that sounds very much like when I first started playing around with DOS and early versions of Windows (the amount of times I had to re-install those systems because things just stopped working for no apparent reason). At the moment I doubt what I am doing will effect the system stability as I am not about to start playing about with the kernel or any of the innards of the system any time soon. If anything does effect the stability, it will probably be an update.

Besides which, all my data is (other than programs) on my Windows drive which I unplugged before installing Manjaro onto a fresh drive so the worst thing that could happen is that I have to plug the Windows drive back in.

And it can be stated prosaically! :smiley:

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold..." ~Yeats

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It's not that. It's the rolling system. Just imagine: the amount of software, configuration and hardware is basically infinite. If you install any bleeding edge software, you are like a beta tester. Sure, there are layers of testers and to Manjaro stable you should get a relatively stable product, but still something might break. Software developers cannot predict configuration on your system and also they cannot predict future updates of other software and how it will affect their code.
So in end result, there is and will always be a potential for breakage.
This come with the rolling model and is not avoidable. Lately even Windows is flirting with that model and you already can see effects: files get deleted, antivirus software stops working and many other issues. Even such big company can't avoid that.

You never know what you will do that may affect your stability. For example, you may installed an encrypted partitions and some systemd updates have potential to break it. Those situation happen mostly in unstable and testing repos. You can meddle with graphical drivers - many people do that and they break their install, because they never bothered to read Manjaro wiki how it should be done... etc.

Anyway, a good practice is to have backups so even if something goes wrong, there is no stress. We won't tell fairy tales that everything will be pitchy. Rolling release requires a conscious user who knows who is doing. It's not install and forget type of distribution. There is some minor and fairly simple maintenance and know-how needed.

Manjaro will break eventually
MacOS will break eventually
Windows will break eventually

Manjaro may be more susceptible to breakage due to the novelty of our packages, but even major OS's break frequently.

This is debatable.
Issues are unavoidable, yes, but in hands of experienced users, they can be fixed and system will still work. My current Manjaro install on my main laptop is nearing to a 3 years. I use unstable repo since many months and I'm still well. This is how stable Manjaro can be.

There were many issues in that time and many times when I thought "aha, this may be the time I will finally will have to re-install the system" but it turned out there was a solution, always. In fact, fixes were usually very simple and trivial... so after a while they all go away from my memory as they were never there. I don't feel a burden of dealing with those problems, because it all feels simple and relatively quick.

So again, issues are inevitable, breakages... not necessary if you can restore backups, use tty or chroot. Rarely there are issues that cannot be helped through those methods. And actually, on my, I repeat, almost 3 years old install, I never had to use tty or chroot to fix any issues. For almost 3 years I did updates and system always booted successfully. Will it be forever so? Probably not but how long it will last depends probably on me and my tenacity to resolve things.

It is likely that the OS install will live as long as the laptop itself. If that happens, then this "Manjaro will break eventually" will turn out not to be true...

I tried updating Windows 10 on a low-spec 7" tablet (HP Stream 7). The update process failed and left the tablet in an unusable state (boot loop). The only way to fix it is to reinstall Windows and in doing so lose all the data on the disk.

A PC crashes part-way through a Manjaro update. This can be fixed by booting a live image, chrooting in, and correcting/re-running/resuming the interrupted update process.

Which OS is more reliable?

Which OS has the higher expectations placed upon it?

Which OS is a paid-for product written and maintained by one of the largest global companies?

Why do we keep assuming that any OS is bullet-proof and cannot break, and if it does then the developers aren't worth the air they breathe?

How many times are we going to have to have this exact same discussion?

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Same here. I think I am now about 6 months in on running with Manjaro Cinnamon. It is for me the only and best Linux distro.

I tried Ubuntu and it's flavors in the past but I always managed to make it break in about a months time and then I gave up in frustration and went back to Windows.

Usually I broke it because I am a gamer and needed the latest NVIDIA drivers. Which means adding a PPA and updating through the terminal but somehow I ended up with a black screen after a reboot. Sometimes I managed to fix it but I can't remember the other stuff that I did to break things.

I also used the terminal more in Ubuntu then in Manjaro. Ubuntu also required me adding PPA's for all kinds of stuff I wanted.

With Manjaro I just enable the AUR and I can install whatever I want through the package manager and updates of software/drivers/kernels is easy as well.

Manjaro is certainly beginner friendly. Also, every OS breaks. Even Windows has been very crashy/buggy lately with Windows 10.

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This is why Linux is the future. There are a lot of things we do right, that the million dollar companies don't from a usability standpoint. The bootlooping windows is what started Linus' last video, so it must be common.

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From my experience, stability on Manjaro highly depends on three things:

  • What the user do with its system;
  • Bugs introduced by upstream, or intentional breaking changes made by upstream that require changes in other programs;
  • Errors made by Manjaro Team.

Essentially a summary of this.

https://forum.manjaro.org/t/old-manjaro-stability-question/84561/13

On those three factors, Manjaro Team only has full control on the last one: they can't stop a user from doing bad practices on his/her system (even if you repeat again and again the same things), they can't stop upstream from putting bad code in their software or introducing changes that breaks compatibility with previous versions (they can try to avoid bad versions, but often, it just delays the unavoidable or cause other problems in itself).

Of course things will always be more stable on a fixed-release distro just because how Manjaro is made inherently: it is easier to be super stable when you only really upgrade your software once every six months or two years (when there is a new distro version). Be prepared for breakage when you do the distro upgrade though.

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"Break" is "when I can't fix it easily myself". And that goes for everyone and everything.
My jeans will break eventually, but if it's a small tear I fix it so it's not visible and it takes 5 minutes. Someone else will say they're broken.

Same with computers. Having to install new drivers in Windows does not mean Windows "broke". Having to ammend or discard your custom .config for some program due to an update in Manjaro doesn't mean it's broken either.

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"Manjaro will break eventually" is stupid IMO

TBH Manjaro Breaks less than my Ubuntu installs ever did. On Ubuntu unless you want to run an ancient version of your graphics drivers or any useful gaming tool/software, etc. you have to PPA to hell and more often than not your system ends up a potato. This all works fine for a server where this isnt a thing and stability is more a concern but as a desktop.....nah

In swoops Manjaro and all you gotta do is install things from your package manager and youre golden. Its been light years easier to setup a gaming rig thats up to date on manjaro vs Ubuntu.

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This is a thing. How many people that use leaping distros end up doing a full reinstall every 6 - 9 - 12 months because it completely poops out? I have heard (and seen) so many many horror stories about Fedora or Suse Leap or Ubuntu just going "I don't like you anymore and will not talk to you" after a system upgrade. There's a reason the standard advice for Fedora (a brilliant distro) is "never upgrade until 7 or preferably 14 days after release". Because a day one patch is ALWAYS coming.

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