Manjaro in MM Zwolle.

EDIT: Je bent gezien. Ik weet wie je bent gezien we samen hebben moeten werken op school. Toch maar van Arch op Manjaro over? Als ik je zie spreek ik je ff aan.


Dit wordt niet gewaardeerd...

Als medewerker is dit erg irritant gezien we dit ding nu weer moeten imagen. Camera beelden worden nu gecontroleerd door beveiliging.

Gelieve Manjaro op positievere manier promoten, niet door installatie op demomodelen in de winkel. Hoop toch dat de community beter kan dan dit. Manjaro is meer waard dan kwajongesstreken...

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Noone on the forum told anyone to go to your shop to install Manjaro.

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I know. I'm not blaming the forum at all! I love the forum, it's generally filled with great people :blush:.

I originally started typing before I knew who it was, and there are many users I don't know in the country, so it was more a general annoyance to share. I figured this place has the highest change of reaching a random Dutch Manjaro user who did this when not knowing who it was. At all times I expected this to be an individual's action, probably just doing this for fun or personal believes.

Otherwise, it's just a general share that this is not funny, just annoying and childish. Which I would hope, and honestly think, is common sense for most people here.

For the promoting part, it's more meant in an "if you want to promote Linux, there are better ways that don't make users look bad".

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This was a test to see if Manjaro boots error free.
Too bad it means more work for you.
Unfortunately the stupid ones don't die out.
Today you need a license for everything but no license to produce children.

Edit. Dual-Boot possible? :wink:

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Next time you wanna test such things, it's nicer to ask an employee. For our sake, but also your own. You're kinda lucky we where with too few people and most (including me) where doing other stuff elsewhere when this happened making it effectivily a moment with only one person on the floor. If we caught you in the act we probably would have just send you away and informed others to keep an eye on you in case you came back. If you had finished this and you where still in store when this was noticed, depending on who noticed it, security would be called to come kick you out, and possibly, altrough unlikely unless you'll do it more regularly, you could get held while security called police since what you did counts are ruining our wares on purpose (showmodels are in most cases part of our stock, sold as last if no new in box are available, ofcourse, with knowledge and consent of the buyer and full warranty). You wouldn't be the first one prohibited from entering the store.

At least the Windows license code is saved on hardware nowadays, else we had to write the whole pc off since we can't sell it with Manjaro installed instead of Linux. Now, it's just a simple image we need to redo. It's mainly annoying now.

At this location, there are at least two employees who use/used Manjaro, and many more who use Linux or have experience with it. If we can't give you a certain answer from knowledge, we probably can find a way to test that doesn't make us have to reinstall our show model or at least one that doesn't go behind our back. Believe it or not, but nowadays MM is trying to hire people with knowledge and deliver good service and advice (having lowest price is undoable in retail nowadays, so the "always cheapest" thing is gone). Just don't ask this to the Apple/tablet people, they generally don't know if you ask this kind of stuff. They know much more about Apple products than I do, and most likely ever will, tho.

Aside of the OS instalation itself, everything can be tested in a live boot, and since you're used to arch (assuming you are indeed who did this) I'm sure you can figure out any of the issues that could arise during instalation, altrough they are somewhat rare as far as I know.

Dual boot works fine with Grub2, altrough newer Windows 10 updates can be a bit finicky in my experience, but we won't have them in store anytime soon.

I would be the first to vouch for having some Linux machines in store, especially Manjaro, but these devices have to be sold a certain way since they are general products we buy in. It can't be different from other sellers of the same product. Aside of that, you where at a Microsoft stand and I doubt Microsoft will like it shipped dual boot. Generally, the market for pre-installed Linux distros is too small. Most people who use it can install it themselves if need be, and for many it's a waist of space.

Anyways, nice to see you gave Manjaro a try. You seemed rather set on staying with your Arch set-up last time we spoke. What made you decide to try?

To be clear.
I assume it was a test.
That doesn't mean I was it, what the rest of the text says (I am not stupid :slight_smile: ).
But it could also be that my translator failed.

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It might have been your translator. Your comment is writen like you're telling us that it was a test (with certainty, no guess). Adding a "maybe" in front might be a good idea. Since only the person doing it would know his in tensions for sure, I thought it was you who did it :sweat_smile:. I already thought your profile didn't match the guy who did it, but who knows what he did in his free time? Been months ago or so since I last spoke to him.

Anyways, who knows. No matter the reason, this isn't the right way to go. Like I said, I like this community and I think most people on here know better than to overwrite pc's at stores with Linux behind the stores back. Defiantly not meant as an attack to anyone here, more an expression of annoyance and otherwise just aimed at the person responsible.

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Not me, I have an alibi. :grinning::grinning::grinning:

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In fairness, your shop is not entirely without fault here.

e.g.:

You could have a better-secured display, e.g. put locked perspex over the keyboard.

You could have strips down each side of the laptop to block access to the USB ports (e.g. put the laptop on U-shaped perspex or metal tray).

You could disable booting from a USB drive (which would be sensible anyway).

This is kind of basic store security.

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That was the first thing I thought of, but I didn't know if win could do it.

BIOS is the solution, I think :slight_smile:

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He was only complaining cause now he actually had to work instead of parading through the isles in his fancy red shirt.
I know the shop, have been there, probably won't come back when staff has no sense of humor.

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This has nothing to do with humor. It is just damaging things you don't own.

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@jonathon I can agree there. Security on this kind of stuff is minimum. Partly because we want to keep the laptops easily accessible for customers to try stuff out (be able to pick it up, etc.). Normally this would be caught much quicker by employees instead of some time after instalation was finished, but sadly, circumstances made for few people on the floor. This is not an issue that happens much (generally, the worst we get is people playing games or doing their taxes in a browser on our pcs), and things that are more often issues, are more secured. Even so, indeed it's the stores fault it could happen. Honestly, I don't know why there is no more protection, but now I'm curious about the reason. I expect cost vs what it earns the store, since it's not a common issue. Doesn't make it less rude tho.

@DeMus nah, our red shirts ain't fancy, their actually pretty cheap quality blouses :wink:.

Anyways, all work it gave me is sighing, then removing the demo model to give it to the Smartbar since imaging isn't a job saleclerks may do. I don't mind imaging even when I need to do it myself. It ain't hard anyways. But I rather spend my time on other tasks than fixing something just because someone thought it was funny to break it for its purpose. Like banjo said, you're damage other people's stuff. Even if we can fix it, that's rude to me, not funny.

Also, you know that always looking available, walking around so people can find us easily, and greating each customer is part of our job? Unless not otherwise possible, even when doing other tasks we may never look too busy unless we're helping customers so people won't feel like they're bothering us if they want to ask something. Most of the time when we're "parading" we're actually doing other stuff :wink:. I guess we do this part well then, if you think we only parade all day if no one gives us work with stuff like this :slight_smile:.

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I know, that's exactly how they look.

Are you working on some sort of bonus system and get paid for every object you sell?

Sure, but that's your point of view. My viewpoint is different. Instead of getting angry you also could have taken the opportunity to show customers that the laptop is also available for Linux, in this case Manjaro. Nice way of saying it doesn't have to be Windows.

I would think so. How would you, an employee of a shop in Zwolle, be able to know many Linux (Manjaro) users in The Netherlands? Do they report to you personally, are you leading a user group of some kind? I use Manjaro for 3 years now and have not reported to you yet, nor am I a member of your user group, should it exist. Where do I have to report and where can I sign on?

But, I end with a :rofl: to show I didn't mean all that in a bad way.

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lol! I actually find this rather hilarious! People doing their taxes in the store? Installing an OS on exposed PCs? lol! Never saw that happening here. I feel you :cry: That's why I'm definitely not fit do deal with sales and customers. I even wrote it in my CV.

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I know, that's exactly how they look.

I know they look (and are) cheap. It makes me not want to buy decent red blouses either even tho I love weird coloured blouses (of good quality). Never understood why they would make us wear blouses and such but then get cheap ones. What kind of message should that give? Where cheapasses trying to be fancy? Glad we're getting polos soon.

Are you working on some sort of bonus system and get paid for every object you sell?

No, hourly salary only. Extra if you work on Sundays and such (in the sense of 150% salary an hour on Sunday, etc), but sales or lack thereof do nothing for my income. Even things like selling insurance doesn't give me a cent extra. I'm also technically not allowed to advice, only to explain and tell pro's/con's and factual statements.

Instead of getting angry you also could have taken the opportunity to show customers that the laptop is also available for Linux, in this case Manjaro. Nice way of saying it doesn't have to be Windows.

Like I said, I would love to be able to promote Linux in store. But we're not allowed to do it this way. We could get in trouble with the companies making this products, as well as Microsoft as this was a Microsoft stand. All this does is create extra work for us.

If you want to see more Linux PCs in store, have people ask about them. As far as MM is concerned, there currently is no market since most install themselves or don't want to have an OS they need to learn so much for. Unless it's closed of and requires no knowledge of the system like Chromebook, for which google pays to have them on Display in our store, it's not interesting. Show there is a market, and maybe the store will invest in it :wink:

How would you, an employee of a shop in Zwolle, be able to know many Linux (Manjaro) users in The Netherlands?

I wouldn't. That was the point. I posted here not to blame the forum, but because it had the highest change to be seen by the person who did it. Otherwise, just conversation topic and me being able to share my annoyance somewhere.

But, I end with a :rofl: to show I didn't mean all that in a bad way.

Don't worry. No offence has been taken taken. You're free to have your view as much as anyone else. I don't always agree, but we can still agree to disagree respectfully. I tried to show I'm not that bothered even tho I tend to write long text by having smiley comments too. I'm not great at short messages :sweat_smile:

@mbb
Yeah. We don't necessarily mind people doing taxes in store unless we have actual customers who might want to take a look at the item, but we don't recommend it for their own privacy mainly. It's funny what you see happening sometimes, some stuff is really random. Some are funny, some are annoying, some or simply weird. Another example, you don't want to know how many people accidentally show their naked photos to people at the Smartbar when they need their phone repaired and still had some folders or apps open :joy:

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this is super funny bro

i used to check my cloud-desktop on random devices, samsung tablets, first gen iphone in local phone shops and the employees never said a thing, as those devices usually get refurbished or end up as spare parts, until one day in a big computer shop, i used a 3 in 1 computer and logged in my desk in full screen mode from the browser, which made it look like a completely different OS, so one employee freaked out and was like... sir sir what what have you doing please stop, did it broke, i laughed, logged out and left the store.

but as others said, its the store fault, and be grateful as there are worst things that can happen if you leave the showroom models unsecured, example: someone getting in and hooking your devices too a botnet, installing malware on your network, or cloning your drive with the windows license key and all software installed, or like it happened to those stupid advertisement screens that have local storage and usb ports, they are all over the place in big cities and inside malls, a few years back someone hacked a few and started showing porn, then the cops were called and had to cover them with blankets in a bus stop.

Now I have to apologize to you. The whole time I was just trying to get on your nerves because of your first posts but it turns out you're alright.
It has been several years I visited the MM in Zwolle, because of my work in Hengelo I come there more often, the last time however was probably several years minus 1.

I do agree of course that installing a different OS on a computer in a shop should not be done. On the other hand to come here and start a rage against the individual is also not something I like. As I wrote, but you countered that already, I find it an opportunity for MM to show we also deliver Manjaro laptops, but management has other ideas.

Well, maybe you find the person. If he is clever he never comes back though. Although it is said that criminals, like arsonists tend to stay at or return to the scene of the crime. So maybe you are lucky after all.
Success.

Yeah, it was posted a bit in annoyance so maybe the original post was written a bit too negative, but it's not a huge deal, more a small annoyance. It's easy for us to fix. Biggest lost is not having one laptop on show for a short time, which I doubt matters much in the big picture. I guess it's good we're hiring IT people now, so scenarios like @klaude_kraap wrote are rare and we can actually give proper info.

As I said, aside of reaching whoever did it (which I know by now), it was also creating conversation. Which I guessed worked as it's one of the most active Dutch topics I've seen, be it we're all talking English :joy:.

Also, from what I understood it really differs for each location what kind of people work there and how well they deal with policies regarding work ethics, so when I say things are more positive, know I can only say that for Zwolle. Honestly, I heard horror stories about MM Hengelo, especially towards external employees :rofl:

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I hope it worked out to restore the original OS on that machine without a huge hassle. Since I also worked in sales sometime I know the burden when those things happen. Also company policies to promote or buy products which are for a market niche.

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