Is there a benefit to using pacman -Syyu over pacman -Syu

#1

What is the gain? If you use the same mirror, there is no problem.

You may always use Manjaro One Mirror Sync (M1ms). :wink:

[SOLVED] pacman -Sy gnupg archlinux-keyring manjaro-keyring fails
What is the difference between [sudo pacman -Syu] and [sudo pacman -Syyu]?
#2

If you do not know you need to do some research, its not about mirrors its about syncing the mirror pacman only syncs every 24 hr default Syy forces it to sync so if their is a change its picked up stops unintentional partial updates. :joy:

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#3

Quite the unnecessary slant in tone and inflection there, guy

Beyond the scope of nitpicking the reality of updating more than once a day due to the proper best practices in not fudging up on a rolling release, I'll bite on why you are wasting bandwidth on every update transaction for no real reason beyond the minuscule chance you get some split by fate package that you didn't get somehow. This is also without saying that if you had to be pedantic on the forealsies best way for the OP you probably oughta direct more time on having bite behind the bark when sharking out a nasty reply

Do some research..? No need for the condescending when we can all benefit from knowledge without gatekeeping

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/System_maintenance#Partial_upgrades_are_unsupported

Avoid doing [partial upgrades]. In other words, never run pacman -Sy ; instead, always use pacman -Syu .

That is why partial upgrades are not supported . Do not use pacman -Sy package or any equivalent such as pacman -Sy followed by pacman -S package . Always upgrade (with pacman -Syu ) before installing a package.

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#4

See also

https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/8m2l68/pacman_syu_vs_pacman_syy/dzk9sb9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

#5

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mirrors#Force_pacman_to_refresh_the_package_lists

Force pacman to refresh the package lists
Mirrors can be out of sync and the package list from the old mirror may not correspond to the package list of the new mirror, even though the dates of the lists may suggest that they do.
After creating/editing /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist, issue the following command: # pacman -Syyu
Passing two --refresh/-y flags forces pacman to refresh all package lists even if they are considered to be up to date.
Issuing pacman -Syyu is an unnecessary waste of bandwidth in most cases, but can sometimes fix issues when switching from a broken mirror to a working mirror. See also Is -Syy safe?.
Warning: In most cases if you force refresh the pacman database, you will want to force downgrade any potentially too-new packages to correspond to the versions offered by the new mirror. This prevents issues where packages are inconsistently upgraded, leading to a partial update. # pacman -Syyuu This is not necessary when using timestamps to ensure the mirrors are only upgraded.

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#6

And exactly how long have you been using a Arch based distro to tell me how to do things.
For a start if you are using Manjaro testing or unstable as a lot of users do it updates several times a day mins after Arch stable that updates several times a day.

Sometimes Philm or other devs inject security update staight to stable as soon as they recieve them better to force a resync and be safe than sorry.

Secondly if you have worries about bandwidth don't use a rolling release. Or waste time here in the forum.

In 15 year using arch based distros I have never had to reinstall my main Arch install using Syy when you achieve that please advice me on how to run a Arch based system.
I use Arch testing by the way.

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#7

Long enough to use the Lil magnifying glass in the top right corner - give it a shot sometime :eyes:maybe we can venture into search engine land next https://forum.manjaro.org/t/wanting-to-update-the-whole-system-included-aur-one-command-solved/73278/5?u=tacoon

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=163124

#8

Look i'm not getting at you but i've been around a long time and good practices are not always written down as some like to keep things to themselves.

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#9

Post got seemingly caught up in the thread split.. But to your point - Very very fair point! there always is more to know and learn on, I respect that!

#10

You need to follow the Arch forums the are pacman commands that are unimaginable that work perfect some clever guys use Arch sadly i'm not one of them :nauseated_face:

#11

Right? The discussion never seems to have a begin nor end either if that's putting it simply - there's always those nice niche cases and odd anecdotes that bend out what is good convention. I find it fun!

#12
-y, --refresh
           Download a fresh copy of the master package database from the server(s) defined in pacman.conf(5). This should
           typically be used each time you use --sysupgrade or -u. Passing two --refresh or -y flags will force a refresh of all
           package databases, even if they appear to be up-to-date.

So unless your local database got corrupted or you switched from a broken mirror -Syu is all what you need.

#13

If you use Yay or trizen they automatically check AUR with Syyu or Syu if you add the --devel flag they also check AUR git packages but that should be in the Manjaro wiki but maybe not in the Arch Wiki as helpers are frowned

#14

I don't want to interrupt or spoil the fun of you two :laughing:, but can you show me (if exists...) any documentation that says this:

I am just joking!!
There is no such thing. Pacman checks the databases timestamps EACH time it does a Sync operation-download.
The same method is used by m1ms (my own developed Manjaro specific mirrorlist "admin"), to ensure no partial updates.
When a repo's DB timestamp is newer than the relevant local DB, then it downloads the remote repo DB.
If not newer, it does not "re-sync" (aka. use y).

I don't have any objection that using double-Y is one (of many) method to keep your system from partial updates status. I was just raising it because you made it a "suggestion for newbies", which I object.
New users should not carry on oldies habits :rofl:. The same like children with their parrents habits. I have a super funny (but real) anecdote to share, on this regard, if you want.

Peace!! :sunflower:

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#15

In due resect yes I do respect you,
Simple answer i can update issue Syu "nothing to do" then i can Syyu and their are updates they don't come out of thin air but Syu does not force a resync Syuu does, its not a old habit lots of Arch users do the same. Its only advice after all its not a directive all i know its proved the correct way for not breaking my system for 15 years so it works, and come on saving bandwidth i've used more bandwidth replying than using Syyu anyway and so have you. so lets not get into a why and what for please. :heart:

#16

Exactly!! It's just a matter of "believe I do something good" :laughing:

Nevertheless, because I have done a few research and testing (maybe not enough. though),

if this is true I consider it as a bug on pacman.
Since you say a lot of Archers have this habit by experience (and not reported this as a pacman bug), the only answer I can give is because they have taken the pacman devs quote literally

BUGS
Bugs? You must be kidding; there are no bugs in this software.

Read the next sentence:

But if we happen to be wrong, send us an email with as much detail as possible to pacman-dev@archlinux.org.

Good luck with that! :wink:
Regards!

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#17

Very very fair point! there always is more to know and learn on, I respect that!

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[SOLVED] pacman -Sy gnupg archlinux-keyring manjaro-keyring fails
#18

Just as a last note.
Theory never works out in reality theory is always flawed by design, like I should of been dead 60 years ago but i'm still here live and kicking.
I'm gone before you get me kicked out of here Lol .

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#19

-y, --refresh

Download a fresh copy of the master package database from the server(s) defined in pacman.conf(5). This should typically be used each time you use --sysupgrade or -u . Passing two --refresh or -y flags will force a refresh of all package databases, even if they appear to be up-to-date.

Ref: https://www.archlinux.org/pacman/pacman.8.html

So, although a lot of Archers, as I've seen opinions expressed in the archlinux forums, appear to think that "-yy" is a horrible waste of server bandwidth, @mandog's reasoning would also be supported.
We all know appearances can be deceiving. image

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#20

I would not have characterised the fact that you are still alive as flawed!

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