IRC channel's purpose for the community

Good day - sorry for bothering you with this, just wanted some clarity on the IRC channel and did not want to start a public discussion about it.

Been on the channel in the evenings for the last couple of days, and it seems to be mostly quiet. There is the odd moment like this evening, when it springs into a bit of life, but when that happens it does not seem like the easiest place to help someone, or to find help.

This evening in particular (20:50 UTC + 0) there was a conversation that turned a bit silly, if you want some reference :slight_smile:

Just want to know if I should rather direct users to ask for help on the forums from the chat, and what the goal is for the channel?

As an aside, Thanks for the work you do in the community. For someone fairly new to the community I found the way you handle the individuals in the community admirable. Even joining at a time where there was a lot of dicussion and uncertainty about Manjaro and the future, I still found a place I enjoy being.

Kind regards
Longtomjr

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The Telegram group is quite active, FYI.

The IRC channel should be shut down imo. Or the link to it no longer advertised as official support. It is not really reflective of the Manjaro community. I sat in there for a few weeks when I first started using Manjaro about a year ago, and if somebody came in asking for help, usually somebody would go on some kind of rant about using Arch instead of Manjaro. When I tried to talk about forum threads, nobody seemed to know or care, so I got the impression most of the people idling in there were not really active Manjaro users. Also, no mods from the Manjaro team came in there as far as I could tell.

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4 posts were split to a new topic: Telegram disagreement

The IRC channel relies on someone being active on there, and that takes time.

It's difficult for people to stay active in a number of communication channels, and solving an issue on IRC or Telegram is really inefficient in comparison to the forum, not only in terms of the information which can be presented, but also that existing "chat-based" solutions can't be found or referenced like they can with a forum.

I like that we have an IRC channel so there is a route for people who like to use IRC.

I suspect that if we want to keep it active then people will have to make an effort specifically to do that, just like how people have volunteered to get the wiki back up to speed.

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Just an idea:
Isn't there also some kind of IRC discourse plugin available that could be added to the forum?

that would attract more people I guess and might even reduce the number of off-topic replies in the forum threads.

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Currently, the irc channel does not seem like a fun place to be (for me at least). I understand that for some folks it might be what they want, but I don't think it is currently a place people will get help easily.

Yesterday one person had an issue with a keyring application opening when they open chromium (at least that is what I could gather from it), and the conversation was turned into a discussion around choosing a different distribution because manjaro is not trustworthy etc. The guy did unfortunately not get much help related to his problem, and was sent down the road of looking for different distributions, asking if they are trustworty. I understand that people want to discuss recent events and share their opinions about it, but it is not necessarily useful when someone is trying to get help.

What is the current goal of the irc channel? Is it a chat platform for people to talk about random things, or is it a chat platform to share knowledge and help folks out? As one guy put it yesterday - the channel has quite a low self esteem. :slight_smile: (will try to get the name to give credit later today, when i am at my home pc - found it quite a nice way to describe the channel.)

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I understand trying to ask for registered nicks to combat the spammers, but that is an additional hurdle for newbies. What remains is sometimes only haters.

I have personally tried to combat the lies and ignorance there, but I am tempted to agree with you. For example, just last night:

Ignorant repetition of some half-understood rumor (I am being charitable here):

[01:35:56] profi200 lol it looks like not even team members are agreeing with removing pacman. But at least it remains as an option but not pre-installed. Not nice.

Initial lie from somebody who knows better (this is a frequent poster who is not a total newbie, but (at least on this forum) prefers to smear rather than contribute):

[02:42:53] Aph3x-WL profi200: yeah you can install it manually but the move only serves to further confuse new users, and who knows if they'll decide to remove pacman as an option entirely down the road

My attempt to reduce the claim to a testable hypothesis plus one fact

[03:13:51] mparillo profi200: Which version removed pacman? I know the version I use most (KDE-Dev) has it: https://osdn.mirror.constant.com//storage/g/m/ma/manjaro-community/kde-dev/19.09.09/manjaro-kde-dev-19.09.09-unstable-minimal-x86_64-pkgs.txt

Liar caught, then attempting to claim it is not really a lie:

[03:14:36] Aph3x-WL they haven't removed it yet afaik but they plan to and it will be the entire distro

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So without a good complement of Manjaro users active in that channel it is instead populated by anti-Manjaro lurkers, but that's similar to Reddit a few years ago.

If we "delete" the channel it can be re-created by someone else. If necessary I can "close" the channel completely (i.e. make it private).

Currently there isn't one.

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maybe a discord channel ? or something similar embedded in the website

We already have IRC, Telegram, and Matrix channels. There's no need to add yet another option - and a closed-source one at that.

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Point me to it and I'll have a look.

I have attempted to assist on IRC a few times , but found it too awkward.

After reading about 1/3 of the posted output from yesterday I must say I agree with the OP. If that sample from yesterday is typical of the IRC channel, it is doing the distro more harm than good.

What is the point in advising an ex Antergos or prospective Manjaro user to switch to Arch. If someone is wanting to install those those distros, then obviously they are not really quite up to performing an Arch install yet.

If that sample is indicative of the type of support that is being provided on the IRC channel Manjaro would be better without it.

The forum is a far better knowledge base for the entire distro when searching for a solution anyways IMO. I mean it's not like the average person waits long for assistance on the forum.

I find the advice provided quite inappropriate that was being given on the IRC from the sampling posted. At least the forum is moderated with many eyes watching out for inappropriate posts that can be easily flagged by the community.

That is the kind of support Manjaro is far better off without IMO.

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Also, there are people in there seem to get a kick from acting like an authority in a little corner of the Internet. There was at least one or two people in there who overtly pretended to have some position in the Manjaro project in casual conversation. But it became obvious they were anti-Manjaro after picking through chat logs over several days.

I really think this is best unless the place can be moderated more actively.

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So - any volunteers to join the #irc-team ?

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That would be great if you had a bunch of volunteers to look after the IRC channel, but it almost seems like that would be simply removing volunteers from the support pool on the forum where they are dearly needed.

As far as volunteer helpers are concerned the forum is a far better use of volunteer resources IMO.

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I tend to agree. Correcting the lying trolls and clueless who mindlessly repeat those lies on the IRC channel seems to be a Sisyphean task. And ever since creating an IRC nick was a hurdle to get on channel, then the hurdle to get on the forum is comparable, right?

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It is to a point - if the corrections are made each time then they will eventually stop because they know they can't get away with perpetuating misinformation unchallenged.

I dropped by the IRC a couple of days ago (only because someone requested my password for my registered username) - it was very quiet - and I tend to agree with @jonathon - the efforts there cannot be reproduced and as such be made beneficial for a wider audience.

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