For **Female** Manjaroos; Forum gender-inclusive language survey


Mod edit to try and prevent issues before they occur:


Good decisions are possible [albeit not inevitable] from good data, & said data needs to be [amongst other things] statistically significant. As i have no idea how many or few Manjaroos are female, there ipso facto might be an initial question mark over the statistical significance of any data this attempted survey might collect. That said, on with the show…

Responses are not anonymous to prevent “gaming” or whatever.

1. Is gender-neutral language important in the forum?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yawn…

0 voters

2. Is it ok for males to tell females how they are to be addressed in the forum?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yawn…

0 voters

3. Is it appropriate to generically refer to forum Manjaroos as “guys”?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yawn…

0 voters

4. Is it ok for female Manjaroos to object to careless or even gratuitous male gender whitewashing in the forum?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yawn…

0 voters

5. Is it ok for male Manjaroos to ignore &/or contradict female Manjaroos who object to careless or even gratuitous male gender whitewashing in the forum?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yawn…

0 voters

6. Is asking for gender-neutral forum dialogue an unfair imposition on male-perceived rights & privilege?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Yawn…

0 voters

I have no idea if this putative survey will elicit more than a single response, but i suppose if one never asks one certainly would never know.

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Sorry I’m a male But all this Gender this that is only that way if the person makes it that way in the head.
We are all human we have the right to be treated the same gender does not come into it.

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This survey is intended to gather views from female members of the Manjaro community.

If you do not identify as female, do not respond to the survey.

Any off-topic discussion will be flagged/purged with great prejudice.

Consider this fair warning.

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And does that apply if a person is gay or a transvestite, if so you are treading on stormy water

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That would ask for a separate survey topic.

Neither of those things are equated with gender identity.

I know this is a difficult topic for many, hence my strict line here.


Please limit any further discussion to the topic at hand.

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I, for one, but I’m sure others too, have always used “guys” to address or refer to a group of people regardless of their genders not with the intention of hurting someone but purely for the sake of simplicity and because this appears to be a commonly accepted informal use. (I’ve also seen girls addressing girls like that). Also purely for the sake of simplicity, I use the masculine third person singular pronoun (“he/his/him”) when referring to someone whose gender I do not now.

An Earth Human

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I just responded to the survey even if I am (and will always be) male. I think this topic is important for male persons, too. If a female Manjaroo felt uncomfortable because of my writings (I hope that never happened and that it will never happen) I would be very unhappy and I hope she would tell me right away.

Yes, but that’s not what this thread is about.


While I have reservations about some of the language (and implicit bias) within the questions, every male who responds to this thread to defend their own behaviour or societal expectations isn’t helping to remove any concerns about implicit or systematic bias within the community.

(Obvious explicit behaviour, e.g. dickish comments, shouldn’t be being posted at all, and if they are those posts should be flagged so they can be looked at.)

The point of this survey is to try and get a feel of how women on the forum feel about the forum.

No matter how important you think this is to men, or how strongly you hold an opinion, you cannot speak for someone else, let alone an entire gender you have literally no experience of being.

Now - entirely hypothetically - if as a result of this survey (or other discussion) changes to how the forum operated were proposed - then you absolutely would have the right to weigh in.

Until then, hush.

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I respectfully disagree with the very existence of this topic. It is a disrespect for women and any gender to treat someone differently because of gender.
No justification was provided for the very need of this no-issue.
IMHO of course.
I have read all the warnings whatsoever.

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I believe we should identify as Human Being before Men and/or Women. Users of this forum are all People, whatever their gender. Any kind of people. I fear if we begin to go this path then tomorrow we shall have in this forum distinctions by criteria as religion, ideology, social, geography, skin colour, culture, etc…
Of course those differences exist, and all difference should be respected. But respecting a difference is not the same as emphasizing a difference in a way it would come first, before our identity as Human being. I don’t say it is the purpose of this survey… but I really like this forum because it consider all it’s users as HUMAN BEING, and there is no other kind of distinction. I really hope it will stay in this path…
I love Linux, Manjaro and I have learn to love this community… and I really don’t care about the gender of the people whis who I communicate.

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With what purpose?

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What does it mean? Serious question.

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Rather than ask themselves why they are so fragile and take offence at normal technical parlance & discussion they have the self importance to ask that everyone else should be forced to self censor and tread on egg-shells to protect the desperately delicate sensitivities of themselves.

You point to something that is REALLY offensive and we will all be behind you but if you are just virtue signalling and victim point collecting then forget it.

Not all Manjaro users are Men … SO?
Someone is offended by the words guys or chaps … AND?
Female only survey…sexist & divisive ! (what next)

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Sorry but this is just another political brain washing thread, we should not prioritised into male female.
@jonathon should not be supporting it neither gender has no place in this forum, what next colour, race, vegan, Its political correctness that is killing Europe.

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Closing until I’m not accessing this on my phone

Well done everyone. Well done. :clap: :clap:

Instead of just allowing this thread to quietly exist and fade away (which would show we really don’t care about gender), all you’ve succeeded in doing is reinforcing the view that any discussion about “gender imbalance” (perceived or otherwise) will be shouted down by men.

Yup - you all just had to stick your oar in: “I’m important!!! I have an opinion!!! I don’t care if you weren’t talking to me!!! LISTEN TO ME!!!”

I’ll quite happily argue with women (IRL) who want to both be “treated the same as men” and yet receive “special treatment” when it suits them (and a few have even seen how unsustainable that standpoint can be), and yet I’m still open to the possibility that I don’t know everything about women and will listen to what they say to me. Strange that. :roll_eyes:

You really should be open to the possibility that your words or actions can be interpreted differently to how you intend them to be, and that your words and actions can offend (intentionally or not), and that it’s not your right to offend.

We’ve already had the “but teh free speechz!!!” argument several times, and the same conclusion holds: this forum is not a “free speech zone.” You must abide by rules in order to participate successfully within a community, and this forum is no different. If you don’t like abiding by societal rules then this isn’t the place for you.

This all said - this forum is a place focussed on technical discussions, specifically surrounding Manjaro. It’s not a “gender studies” forum, or a “political activism” forum, or whatever else. There are places for those discussions, and this forum is not it.

Once again with feeling: if any posts on the forum are against the rules or outside of general “common-sense” interaction they should be flagged for moderation.

Treat others as though they were you.

Literally. As if it was you on the other end. Change your thought.

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It seems, unsurprisingly, many of you don’t know about “non mixed discussion groups”. The wording may not be accurate, since this expression is just getting popular in France, and i didn’t find a relevant match in English. So let me educate you a bit.

As its name implies, a non mixed discussion group is group including only members of the population with a specific trait, joined to discuss a topic. What the name does not imply, is that trait refers to a socially discriminated part of the population: women, gays/trans, non-white people, non-christian people…

When i first learned about such groups, i was shocked too. How could discriminatory groups solve discrimination?
That contradiction is actually the key element, because such groups are a mirror to the current situation. Even in an egalitarian civilization, many people don’t feel they live on the same step as the others, their worries and issues being capped by the opinions and routines of others. They can’t voice their opinion, it is taken, twisted, and appropriated by others. They can’t handle confrontation, they don’t want to need to stand out in front of everyone just to be heard.
Non mixed discussion groups are a mean to actually give them back the ability to voice their own opinions, without being deformed by others, or fear of voicing one contradictory to the dominant cast. Like fighting fire with fire, those groups exclude those, consciously or not, participating in silencing such voices. Thus, those discriminating become, for the length of those discussions, the discriminated.

By now, you should have made the link with the female-only poll thread. Yes, this is absolutely a reaction to what happened there. And i am pissed.
So, to those of you who deny people the possibility to voice their own opinion, who claim you can voice theirs as if they were yours, who brush off and sink topics they actually want to discuss, all while claiming to respect them: SHUT THE F*** UP AND LET THEM SPEAK.

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In essence, the bigger the “group”, the more likely of sub groups emerging, all grouping like-minded people. Livend/existing nicely next to each other with that thin lubricant between them called “mutual respect”.
It is the pipe dream (wet dream even?) of some people that these boundries should disappear. Not so. These boundries are needed. And…belonging in one group can also imply you CAN belong to any other group as well…people are a set of thoughts…each “thread” being equally entitled to contact with like-minded individuals.
There will always be “groups”. Will it or not (and the politicians should realise this) it is that very system of grouping that makes large societies (cities and such) peacefull…to a certain extent.
It is not apartheid, as some dare to say. It is people seeking each other out, because of that mental “click” between them…
Thanks for sharing, I for one can relate to the idea, @maycne.sonahoz
Peace to all…and…click:wink:
:rose: :sun_with_face: :rose:
Melissa

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