Feature request: dedicated update-manager


#41

Most of the time if an update is critical the one or more of the following vocabulary is used:
sudo pamac -Syu, terminal, tty,
Would that suffice? Should I scrutinize the last update announcements for a “common string”?


#42

yeah, i had a feeling i misunderstood.

i dont even know what that would look like or how involved it would be but it seems easier to accomplish in comparison to making a whole new update alert applet that some may or may not disable or prefer to use something else. at least a certain “RFUI” string recognized by pacman/pamac/octopi would work regardless of the users preference of package manager.

this wouldnt be like manjaro coddling as much as it would be making the user the person responsible for theyre own system after being given the info they need to know.


#43

If an update requires manual intervention, put the word [critical] (or some other tag) in the thread title. This is what I would suggest.

Too complicated and unreliable. It’s easier to just use a tag in the title.


#44

the only problem with that is most of the people using manjaro probably dont read the forums and would just end up updating into a problem. should the end user choose to ignore reading then they should at the very least have a decent backup solution but the masses find it easier to blame everyone else for problems easily avoided with a little due diligence.


#45

Another option that has been thrown around in the past is to make btrfs the default filesystem and have pamac take a snapshot before installing updates.


#46

@dalto - good idea.


#47

i thought I was too late to say anything in this thread…

But

I boo this very hard…

I dont like btrfs.I dont want it. And from what I have seen, it certainly isnt going to solve ‘stable’ issues … if only because of btrfs issues replacing the old ones, if not outnumbering them.

Besides, Id much rather fix an issue or roll back a package than functionally install over my existing system. I also dont want the default to be taking snapshots before every update - taking both processing and storage resources. If folks want this sort of thing they can have it … but I really dont think it should be default.


#48

I don’t feel strongly about it either way, but I do think that the enthusiasts on this site who don’t want to use it are capable of selecting a different filesystem during the install.

btrfs definitely has issues, but not more than the number of issues we see with updates.


#49

Even if we rely on this cost/benefit analysis, I would have to disagree given the reports.

Sure we see less btrfs issue threads … because it isnt default.
But notice who has issues with btrfs, and of what nature.
They are system-critical events, sometimes wiping data. This affecting advanced users.
I cringe thinking what would happen if it were default.


#50

I already have an alias to create a log on my desktop whenever pacnew files are found. This could also be accomplished by the use of a pacman hook.

alias pacnew='sudo updatedb && locate --existing --regex "\.pac(new|save)$"'
alias download='sudo pacman-mirrors --country Canada United_States && sudo pacman -Syyuw'
alias update='download && sudo pacman -Su && pacnew > ~/Desktop/pacnew.log'

Btrfs is nowhere near ready to be the default file system of Manjaro IMO.


#51

btrfs is the default filesystem on opensuse and Synology NASes(sp?). If you search my posts for btrfs you will see I am no supporter of the filesystem but it would be a quick fix for the majority of update issues we see. Could always go the opensuse route and use one fs for root and another for /home.

At this point, I can’t imagine it getting more stable than it is right now. It is perpetually 6 months away from stability.


#52

…well…then…exactly ?


#53

It is possible I am not the right person to sell this idea. :thinking:


#54

Do what ever you feel is right as long as nobody tries to recreate Ubuntu’s fantastic unattended-security-updates package.

It just broke 4 LTS servers of mine. :roll_eyes:

And you think manjaro has problems lol.

IMHO, anyone who just clicks to update something before checking the forum first, should just enable automatic updates and live on the edge. At least he/she would save two clicks in the process.

I’m all for a warning pop-up though.

Tony


#55

That handles only pacnew. I was thinking more generally. Something to filter out all kinds of important messages from the noise.

Nice solution nonetheless!


#56

We literally could borrow some ideas from octopi. This is a good idea. The warning button could look like this.

:warning:Alert. It is recommended that you install this via tty using the command sudo pacman -Syyu
Click here to learn how to install updates via tty If you continue, you may run into problems including having a broken system

Would you like to proceed anyway?

[Yes] [No]

For the actual tool, there should be a “release notes tab” and a “update now” tab. Say somewhere “it is recommended to read the release notes before installing”
At the end of the install, after a reboot, you could have the same tool pop up with a dialog box that says “was this update successful.l


#57

It’s looking good on paper but what if user still will be refuse to read and possibly worst… refuse to update? Besides it’s a little bit demoralizing. Main thing is to learn, not to be more lazy. I think that opening bookmark in browser is faster than clicking few buttons and waiting for extra windows or menus. I’m confused :confused:


#58

Not sure if it is a sane precaution to run the updates in tty. This is mostly useful in case xorg crashes during a kernel update. I think the precaution should be: "This is a critical update. If the update does not finnish succesfully, DO NOT reboot before running This command: sudo pacman -Syu; sudo mkinitcpio -P; sudo update-grub. Xorg crashing should not be normal.


#59

IMHO there is no perfect solution to the possible breakage.
But a very effective workaround can be a Backup/Restore feature, whatever this can be (Timeshift, rdiff-backup, rsync…), which can be hooked to alpm/pacman relative actions.

All the rest is Human Behavior Analysis resourceful discussion.
You should all know that

The stupid is unbeatable
Stupidity is bulletproof


#60

I like that idea better. And have it report specific errors, like
“Command mkinicpio failed. “Could not fine hook bootsplash-manjaro” not just pamacs

Error could not complete transaction