Does anyone actually use snaps?

I think what started the whole "Canonical is tracking us" thing was this by @philm

I just checked with #canonical. At least 1500 Manjaro users are using snaps on a regular basis.

Least in the thread, that's where it came from. Not sure if you mean here or just overall. :slight_smile:

Snaps is recording the installations of each snap per application based on GDPR rules to see the marketshare. This is provided in a transparent manner. Developers of the applications have the right to know on how many machines their software runs and which country the might need to focus their support for. In a later state most of the Godot games will be distributed as snaps.

So all major distributions are preparing the needed support for features to come in snapd. Manjaro is desktop oriented, so it is key for us to support technology like snap, flatpak, appimage and platforms like steam out of the box. Therefore we are working closely with each development team and join their summits as needed.

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"Bloat", bloat, distro philosophy and other issues aside, there are also technical limitations still, afaik.

Theming might still be an issue, but also the fact that Arch based distros at least seems unable to define a snap version of a program as a default app.
For example it seems impossible to set the snap version of Firefox as default browser.

Maybe you missed it. We added the needed support so all snaps look native themed with Manjaro default theming. This was added by #canonical at the summit in Montreal.

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That still won't help if you switch theme, though.

We don't recommend to switch themes at all on Manjaro.

That might be, but that was not the main issue anyway.

The official Manjaro stance is that we should use the theme it comes with and not change it? Don't get me wrong, I think Manjaro does a great job with the default theme, but saying that we shouldn't change it seems a strange attitude.

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One of the main reasons I run an Arch based distro is because it runs especially well on my older hardware that is very slow by today's standards and has space limitations.

If snaps/flatpaks/appimages are not actually installed on the base versions of Manjaro I don't have any major objections to having it ready to be used if you want to install it. I still wouldn't use them, but having the required components for them to run is neither here nor there (if not coming with preinstalled containerized apps).

Actually coming with these types of apps preinstalled is where it crosses my boundaries of acceptable usage. That is just unacceptable for old hardware that is slow and has space limitations.

If the devs want to go down this road I still have no objections as long as there are differing ISO versions. This would require extra work on the Manjaro teams part, but it makes far more sense to me. Especially with the influx of EOL Windows 7 users that can be expected very soon. All these ex Windows users will be looking for an OS that will run well on their old hardware.

This is a large segment of the people who use Linux. It is the only alternative for re-purposing old inadequate hardware. Don't destroy the main reason many use Manjaro in the first place by adding all these unnecessary components to all the main editions.

If you want a new super max edition for all the new hardware/commercial vendors that's fine, but produce a standard ISO for old hardware without all this extra stuff.

Please don't say that's what Architect is for. The hordes of dispossessed Win 7 users flocking to Manjaro are never going to be capable of using Architect.

Split the editions and I don't think you will hear any complaints, because then you are leaving the choice to the user if they want all the bells and whistles and everything but the kitchen sink. Otherwise I think this is a poor decision.

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I don't recommend you take that stance. It smacks of GNOME with Adwaita and will just alienate users who do not want to use your default themes. They are not to everyone's taste.

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Nailed it.

I'm also in favour of producing a standard old-school image without snap support.

I guess many users don't have a problem with snaps per se (they can be useful after all), but they fear that at some point snaps will become so deeply integrated that it will be difficult to get rid of them.

Since snap support is still something "new" especially in the Manjaro biosphere, I really do not want it to be enabled by default just yet, without offering a snap-free alternative.

Telling users to use Architect instead is the wrong approach.
So at least in the beginning, Manjaro should offer separate installer images and leave the choice to the user.
It is not a good idea to shove it down users' throats. Especially more experienced users will probably not like that approach... so what about a "beta phase" for snaps?

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having snapd and apparmor as a hard dependancies is no go.
make it optional.
well even if they are hard dependancies they should not slow down the system.
or obstruct in any way.
well having hard dependancies
when they are actually not required is against arch way. correct me please if i am wrong.

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We have another option here... why not add a module into manjaro-hello to remove the snap support one time at start...

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That doesn't sound too bad, could expand it to include also removing flatpak. I still think not having it by default would be better though. Perhaps the other way around and have a module for adding it if it is needed?

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It's not something I use nor am planning to use. I personally like using repos + AUR more. If really no other option, I've used installers from official websites, but that tends to be rare and only for very specific software.

Im not completely against it, but atm, I don't want nor need it and would deinstall as soon as I get it automatically from, for example, a new is install. I would have rather seen it as an available repro that could be installed when needed instead of coming pre-installed, but so be it. Uninstalling isn't that big of an effort.

I'm not a huge fan of Canonical, but I haven't looked enough into snaps to decide if I hate this part to or not. I'm skeptical, but I feel it's wrong to complain/hate on until I actually know what I would complain about/hate on. Even companies you dislike can do good stuff every once in a while after all.

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I don't use any of them in regular basis, but I can't find any reason to object enabling the service by default. There was one time I need an applications for professional usage and the only format the software developer release is AppImage. Sometimes we don't have choices but I believe as long as users have the choice to use whatever package management systems they like, no such a big deal.
The only drawback I can imagine is that there may be more people asking about the issues related to snap (or whatever any other formats) support on the forum more frequently.

Mark! Get out of this body!

Regardless of whether you agree with the devs decisions, show a little bit of respect.

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Can't take a joke @tbg?

I have already stated my opinion on snap above: I do think having the possibility of installing them is good, even if I do not plan to use them in the short term.

I can take a joke just fine, but I don't like to see insults hurled at the developers of Manjaro.

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