Discussion about the change in manjaro team composition

The topic is for the discussion about Change in manjaro team composition

Since it is likely that many will be passionate about this topic I would like to layout some ground rules for this discussion.

  • Stay on topic
  • Be civil and respectful of others
  • No personal attacks of each other or the people involved in this announcement

Basically, feel free to share your opinion but do so in professional manner.

Any posts which violate these guidelines will be removed by the moderation team.

23 Likes

Well...for now it still feels like usual corporate style bla-bla-bla *we're mitigating the risks here* without giving anything new / valuable to the table :laughing:

No offense, but come on, we're in the same boat here after all... :woozy_face:

Anyway, it's very sad to see such situation, regardless of reasons.

31 Likes

Thank you for the update.

Could you perhaps elaborate on this particular bit right here? This is evidently the epicenter of the conflict but I feel like it is being glossed over in your announcement.

Much obliged.

34 Likes

I just have one or two questions, that I could not find a clear answer to in the previous discussion:

Is there an agreed upon procedure for approving expenses, or not?

If there is, then the follow up question is:

In this case, was that procedure followed or not?

I ask because my impression is that @jonathon simply defended, in his way - good or bad - the agreed upon procedure.

Or have I misunderstood?

35 Likes

I agree, seems like the Manjaro team is not the best dealing w/ this kind of stuff.
The way they responded to the thread is not the best.

14 Likes

Changes are made every day so who cares, does Manjaro keep rolling? I think yes, it is what users need to know.

3 Likes

This is a very unfortunate loss for Manjaro and the Manjaro community. Jonathon was the most reasonable voice on the dev team, always pushing against harmful ideas like inclusion of snapd, freeoffice, removal of pacman... It was foolish to let him go.

I expect Manjaro will go downhill from now on.

I think I will gradually switch to EndeavourOS over the next couple of months.

Also, the forum lost its leader. While I considered Jonathon's moderation way too strict and often unreasonably and unnecessarily restrictive, the results speak for themselves: the Manjaro forum was, under his leadership, the best Linux community online, no doubt about it. We'll see how that will change in the future.

49 Likes

Camel. Back. Straw.

20 Likes

Personally I dont like the way that Philip handled this.
You silenced people, demoted admins in the forums... For me seems like @jonathon was making the right decision, maybe not in the best way, but It didn't have to go like it went.
I decided that I will move to Arch or EndeavourOS and I wont donate any more or recommend Manjaro.
Also the announcement is super long but without saying anything important or addressing the bad behavior of the team.

I agree also with @kresimir Manjaro is going downhill...

(This is my personal opinion and not an objective statement despite being the same for a lot of people)

36 Likes

While we should not judge who is right and who is wrong based solely on how they reacted in that thread, it is true that the way this was handled was extremely poor and contributed to it seeming more shady than it probably was in actuality. It was full damage control mode.

Now, should Jonathon have posted that thread? Should Bogdan have posted screenshots of their private conversation? I don't know and I think it's impossible to make a judgement on that, given the absence of information. Was Phil wrong in trying to hide that thread? Was he wrong in temporarily removing cscs's mod powers to that he could not make that thread visible again? Definitely yes! While I don't know who was objectively right or wrong in this dispute, I do know that the way it was handled did not look good at all for Phil and the rest of the team. And the final result of Jonathon no longer being part of the Manjaro team is bad for everyone and should have been avoided.

43 Likes

There was, but because of poor communication and extremely rare use of donations, it was not very well known within the team, so it was poorly followed. Jonathon was applying the policy to the best of his ability. He was not removed because he enforced the policy, but because of the conflict that ensued and actions taken in it. The situation sparked from an unfortunate misunderstanding and escalated to what seemed to be a point of no return.

We are now revising the policies to ensure that issues do not repeat and that donations are handled in a responsible manner even now when Jonathon has left.

5 Likes

I edited my post clarifying that is my personal point of view.
Also is not based only in how they handled the thread.

1 Like

Just so we have it in one common place, it'd be nice if @jonathon could:
A) confirm that he did redact those comments (so that we don't have to go digging through forum threads to find that evidence) and
B) Whether he agrees with the statement form the Manjaro team (ie. the disagreement was not over misusing funds, but rather a disagreement in process)

I'm also not going to be too pesimistic about the whole situation. As someone who has been apart of a group where money was involved and disagreements over it occurred, I highly doubt this is something that is a sign of a systemic problem and am optimistic that the (very young) company can move on from this.

1 Like

Typical internet, everything gets overhyped.

9 Likes

Can you please share who is currently in charge of distributing donation money in the interim? Have funds usage been frozen until new policies are in place?

I feel the core issue is around the concern (justified or not) around the misuse of community donations. I don’t see anything to assuage those concerns in this post.

6 Likes

I think so, Manjaro should maintain transparency in the decision making and reading the poor statement that they put out where they did not even address the more worrying part of the problem as @Ferdinand point out, I think this was the right move.

4 Likes

Jonathon was not alone in these opinions within the team. But yes, this is major loss for Manjaro team. We will survive, but it is going to take a lot of work to fill the gap he left.

1 Like

Exactly :slight_smile: people comment some internal fight with just few lines of information from beaten guy :slight_smile:
We can expect another arch based distro soon :slight_smile:

I want to think that the main dev of Manjaro and someone that uses the donations' money he knew the procedure...

Creating a hostile situation that makes someone quit is not a personal decision.

9 Likes

Mistakes were made on all sides, and the situation should have been avoided. But it happened anyway, and now we are here.

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