That is already so. I find myself explaining new linux users the difference too often. Thanks Canonnical for this.
Thatās the best you can do:
Observation:- They rarely bother reading any tutorials, or related posts, even when directed to them; the trend is they ask a vague question; wait 2 minutes for an answer; and then leave.
Or, am I being too harsh?
Tell me, do you have AUR packages installed?
AUR is not officially supported because this is for users to maintain and take responsibility and Manjaro has no way to support them. Even Arch is not keen on taking any responsibility for them.
Also, since Manjaro is targeted for less technically inclined users, encouraging AUR may be risky, so the strategy of heavy discouraging AUR makes sense. Still, this is, using your language, bollocks.
Iām sure, that most of the users that chose Manjaro, did it because it has access to AUR. Without it, Manjaro would be a flop. It doesnāt matter if you use AUR or not, the mere possibility that you can install AUR packages on Manjaro is just one of the biggest perks that played a major role in choosing Manjaro.
Just imagine a version of Ubuntu without the ability to install additional repos or deb packages, where you have a distro that has it. It doesnāt require a master degree to predict which one would succeed. That is why people are hating the direction Ubuntu is going, but thatās a more complicated topic.
Anyway, if Manjaro would somehow block AUR, so I couldnāt use it, I know I would leave Manjaro. Itās not that I donāt appreciate other perks of Manjaro, I do, but without AUR, itās like without someone without a leg and there are other options that would have more perks.
Pretending that AUR is not important to Manjaro is just self deluding.
Tell me, do you have AUR packages installed?
Yes, as I already mentioned; but very few.
Also, since Manjaro is targeted for less technically inclined users, encouraging AUR may be risky, so the strategy of heavy discouraging AUR makes sense. Still, this is, using your language, bollocks.
You have that back asswards; another term you might like to diminish.
I disagreed with your statement āif Manjaro would have no AUR, we wouldnāt be using itā, which isnāt true; rather itās ā because itās there ā that we might use it. Although, to a new user the AUR is typically irrelevant, until they eventually learn of itās existence.
Iām sure, that most of the users that chose Manjaro, did it because it has access to AUR. Without it, Manjaro would be a flop. It doesnāt matter if you use AUR or not, the mere possibility that you can install AUR packages on Manjaro is just one of the biggest perks that played a major role in choosing Manjaro.
Iām not sure of that at all. Maybe for you thatās true, and for some others; but certainly not most. In any case, thatās the same point rehashed.
Well, Ubuntu is another story, in itself.
Anyway, if Manjaro would somehow block AUR, so I couldnāt use it, I know I would leave Manjaro
Youāre not a new user, clearly, so your point is out of context.
The possibility of blacklisting the AUR was in relation to a possible static Manjaro release, which was earlier mentioned; and is not relevant to other Manjaro releases. I wouldnāt use such a release but, no doubt, there are many who might prefer it. At this stage, is seems more a thought experiment, than much else.
Pretending that AUR is not important to Manjaro is just self deluding.
Thank you for your comments.
rather itās ā because itās there ā that we might use it. Although, to a new user the AUR is typically irrelevant, until they eventually learn of itās existence.
The more popular question from newer users would probably be āDoes it have Flatpak?ā; which itself indicates an apparent ignorance of the native Linux software ecosystem.
It is important, but not THAT important. It is not a show stopper. Exactly like snap and flatpack support. If it was THAT important, arch based distros would have been the big dog in the neighborhood, but guess what - ubuntu has probably 10 times more userbase withouth AUR.
Observation:- They rarely bother reading any tutorials, or related posts, even when directed to them; the trend is they ask a vague question; wait 2 minutes for an answer; and then leave.
Or, am I being too harsh?
No, they wait longer than two minutes. About twenty minutes. And then they start a duplicate thread.
Also, since Manjaro is targeted for less technically inclined users
Please donāt buy into the marketing slogans on Manjaroās main website. As the matter of fact, I have a Feedback draft for a complaint about that, but I havenāt gotten around to posting it yet. And part of this protest ā which several of the team members support ā is why I wrote thisā¦
Manjaro is NOT suitable for absolute beginners No, itās not. And we ā as the helpful community members of this forum ā regularly have to explain this to the newcomers. Or at least, if we get the chance, because it is not exactly unheard of that a vocal newbie throws it out there themselves in a fit of frustration ā if not arrogance or entitlement, because thereās a lot of that going round as well. So why is Manjaro not a distribution for absolute beginners? 1. Manjaro is a rolling-release dā¦
Manjaro is a community-driven distribution with a commercial arm, and like all commercial businesses, this commercial arm seeks to attract as many users as possible, which is why Manjaro is being profiled on its main website as suitable for absolute newcomers to GNU/Linux and for hardcore gamers, while Manjaro is definitely not suitable for that type of users.
Iām sure, that most of the users that chose Manjaro, did it because it has access to AUR.
I for one did not, because I didnāt even know what the AUR was until after I had already installed Manjaro and signed up at (the previous iteration of) the forum.
I did however have certain for myself required packages in mind before I installed Manjaro, and most of them were in the repository. One was not, but I built that one from sources, and in the meantime it has also already long been added to the repo.
This is not to say that I donāt have any AUR packages installed. On the contrary, I have quite a few. But they were not a requirement when I installed Manjaro.
ubuntu has probably 10 times more userbase withouth AUR.
Ubuntu does have something similar. Iāve never used Ubuntu, but Iāve been a resident of alt.os.linux.ubuntu on Usenet for over a decade ā among many other GNU/Linux and generic UNIX discussion groups ā and so I know of its existence. Itās called āthe PPAsā, and they are third-party repositories. And there are many of them.
Itās the commercial arm that need the proposed āsimplifiedā version of Manjaro, to avoid complaints from, or make things more palatable for, those users of the devices that come with preinstalled Manjaro. I canāt say Iām surprised at this. I posted this in July 2021:
Also, doesnāt Manjaro sell preinstalled machines? They canāt have them breaking if they can help it. (I do have some reservations about selling computers to the general public with a rolling distro that actually still requires some maintenance and attention to release announcements, but never mindā¦)
It must be noted that there are likely silent manjaro users, maybe they arenāt even on the forum, who are happily using their manjaro customized gnome setups with those extensions in question. Can you imagine their response if an update to gnome 40 breaks the setup that manjaro devs provided them with? Also, doesnāt Manjaro sell preinstalled machines? They canāt have them breaking if they can help it. (I do have some reservations about selling computers to the general public with a rolling disā¦
Itās called āthe PPAsā, and they are third-party repositories. And there are many of them.
Too uncontrollable; too risky; some of the very reasons for this little black duck avoiding that cesspool. Too often, the cause of any given failure was attributed to poorly-conceived scripts originating from a PPA.
āI can write a script. Iām a d-e-v-e-l-o-p-e-r now. Iām so freaking awesome.ā Cynical? Maybe, but then again, my sojourn with 'buntu didnāt last long enough to find anything overly positive.
Ppa is no more or less risky than aur, or downloaded exe. It is also not official as part of the os on install. You trust the developer of the program.
I also kept them to a minimum, like only for libreoffice to have the newest version (one of the reasons i chose rolling release now).
Containerized manjaro derivative is a nice idea, just call it otherwise and donāt stop developing this one. It should be different project, not a replacement.
And as we previously discussed, the marketing on the site have to be toned down. It is not hard to use distro like arch or gentoo, but it is not for beginners. Itās in the middle.
Ppa is no more or less risky than aur ā¦ You trust the developer of the program.
Although I agree with the philosopy, I still find the AUR [generally] more reliable than PPAās in comparison; developer trust notwithstanding. Moderation is a key factor in offsetting any associated risk; and so is software curation; a concept Iām not overly fond of; yet itās still effective.
It should be different project, not a replacement.
I donāt think thatās been suggested otherwise. Although, I suppose the assumption might be easily made if someone isnāt following the thread in context (that happens a lot).
Manjaro is a convenient way to install Arch for those who cannot afford the time to learn its nuances (and, regrettably, also for those who simply wonāt spend the time). Its unfortunate in some ways that Manjaroās apparent user-friendly appeal reaches quite as far as it does; after all, itās still Arch under the hood, and Arch is anything but beginner-friendly.
Manjaro is a convenient way to install Arch for those who cannot afford the time to learn its nuances (and, regrettably, also for those who simply wonāt spend the time). Its unfortunate in some ways that Manjaroās apparent user-friendly appeal reaches quite as far as it does; after all, itās still Arch under the hood, and Arch is anything but beginner-friendly.
No its not. Manjaro is not Arch.
No its not. Manjaro is not Arch.
Obviously, but the point remains; italicized for context.
The possibility of blacklisting the AUR was in relation to a possible static Manjaro release, which was earlier mentioned; and is not relevant to other Manjaro releases. I wouldnāt use such a release but, no doubt, there are many who might prefer it. At this stage, is seems more a thought experiment, than much else.
I know, my comment was only meant for discussing that hypothetical Manjaro version.
Iām sure, I wouldnāt install it and there would be no point of installing it on any āgrandpa computersā, just because there would be no drivers that are accessible only via AUR. Not only git packages, but also printer drivers are available in AUR, which makes it a necessity. Flatpacks and snaps simply are not enough.
Many obscure drivers are available only via deb, rpm or by compilation. Using AUR is incredibly convenient. Trying to adjust the mentioned formats to Manjaro is beyond the average userās knowledge.
I admit, that I started on Manjaro long before flatpacks, snaps or appimages were created and at that time, having Arch distro without AUR would be stupid. Now the situation has changed but still, AUR is an extremely important feature, whether you use it or not, because there is a high chance you may want something from there at some point.
The whole thing behind Manjaro is that it is Arch based, has access to AUR and is easy to install and more stable. Take away AUR and you will get a castrated version that is less usable.
This is just like in life, extreme safety comes with A LOT OF LIMITATIONS, so safety is opposite to freedom. Manjaro is more stable than Arch, but creating even more stable Manjaro would mean less freedom. I donāt think that such version of Manjaro would be popular. I wouldnāt find any use case for it. Again, I know we are talking about a Manjaro spin, not about Manjaro itself.
Manjaro is more stable than Arch
Maybe in some parallel universe.
Maybe in some parallel universe
Youāve found the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen bridge? Please share the equations.
For me, it is. I am having the same OS install over 8 years. Sure, sometimes I had to fix it from time to time (there was no braking updates since few years), but it wasnāt anything serious enough to do reinstall.
For me, it is. I am having the same OS install over 8 years.
Do you also have an Arch system for 8 years which is āless stableā (need to put this phrase in quotes because itās so stupid it hurts my brain whenever I see it)? If not, how can you make that comparison? You might as well say that Manjaro is more stable than Linux Mint.
Please share the equations.
Google Schwarzschild wormhole, you can get them there.
I simply prefer the relative convenience of Manjaro, as opposed to Arch. I did have a more-or-less stable Arch installation at one time, but it was an incredible time sink for me; finding and refreshing my mind with often out-dated documentation, whenever needed.
This probably means Iām not a purist; so be it. There are many things Iām not, but I still appreciate all the work that goes into making Manjaro as me-friendly as it does. It saves time; plus, it looks better than most DE default offerings available using an Arch-from-scratch methodology.
I likes my Preciouss, Manjaro.
You might as well say that Manjaro is more stable than Linux Mint
Linux Mint is exceptionally stable; I use a copy as a drink coasterā¦
No major spills yet!
Do you also have an Arch system for 8 years which is āless stableā
I did use the unstable Manjaro branch and there was a HUGE difference between it and the testing branch. Unstable branch was breaking very frequently, courtesy of broken Arch packages. Granted, those packages were fixed within hours, but still, the chance of installing a broken package was so high, that I made the decision to go back to testing branch, and use unstable on rare occasions, where I want something sooner (like the newest Plasma release).
This experience alone showed my how big of a difference in stability is thank to Manjaro testing and stable repos.
Of course, I maid just have a bad luck where I jumped into the unstable branch where some unusual amount of faulty Arch packages showed up (it lasted a few months to give you a context), and maybe that doesnāt happen so often nowadays, but still, it gave me some taste of Arch issues and some were so severe that broke the GRUB itself. Luckily, I always have backups.
Iām sure I donāt have as many appās as a lot on here do but Iāve had very few issueās on the unstable branch.Pretty much any issue has been with a conflicting file in updates.I have time shift installed but Iāve only had to use it once when I got carried away and removed all the orphan files without paying attention which I need to do again as I have quite a few.The manjaro-pacnew-checker along with time shift and paying attention here on the forum has made Manjaro work very well for the last few years on the unstable branch.