Always read post 2 for potential issues and solutions

Today I learned something useful. Thank you.

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you could also just click on the start date at the top of the ‘date slider’ to the right of the thread.

ksnip_20240519-100518

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Okay, then i may have been lucky, because i didn’t have to adjust any program around python in my use case. Which program’s did you use which required manual intervention?

And how difficulty it was?

I wondering why no one bring that up, this situation right now would fit perfectly to the nvidia popup bar that shine at the end of 2020 in everyone face, who visited this Forum.

But maybe im the only one who can remember this? Hello? Anyone here? :crazy_face:

Much that once was is lost…
…for none now live who remember it.

– Galadriel (LOTR) :troll:

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You remind me of:

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I said I wasn’t going to bring this up ever again, but since the forum mods have kindly given me my own thread on how to bring potential issues to a user’s attention before they start updating, I repost my post from the “caught by surprise” thread

This is in response to @Kobold 's post above about a popup bar in the forum, which I don’t remember, probably because I don’t use Nvidia.

Some users don’t visit the forum UNTIL they have already updated and face problems. In my view, if you want to catch users and inform them of potential issues before they actually update, the best place to put the pop up is in pamac GUI itself.

The low hanging fruit are the users who update with the GUI since I think the people who update via terminal are more likely to have better habits about reading update announcements first, and/or be able to handle problems that arise. I know that’s a generalisation, but I think it’s a logical one to make.

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It wasn’t difficult, just a faff. I followed the information here

Python packages installed from the Manjaro repo don’t need any action, but I have some from AUR, some from PIP and searx-ng installed from source (because I’ve never managed to get the AUR package to work).

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The first 3 posts were moved from Stable update announcement

Forum Rules - Misplaced Posts
Any post that is deemed by the staff to be in the wrong forum will be moved to the correct location without warning

Suggestion in OP is similar to this in Wiki

Manjaro Wiki - Stay safe - Software

Best approach is to read posts 1 and 2 of the update announcement, before updating. That is where potential issues and required manual intervention steps are set out.

If the update thread is only a few hours old, it’s better to wait a while. An update in the first 24 hours is only for people who can help themselves :wink:

Most users do not read update announcements until after they have had an issue with updating
So IMO it would better to have a prominent warning before they update for the first time
Either in calamares installer or manjaro-hello welcome screen
But it would still not be read by many users

I believe one of the Mods [correction: a contributor to the Wiki, in Dec 2023] told me he would be copying/adapting that whole paragraph 1 of the current wiki entry from a previous post of mine.

However, this current hived off thread (I think you missed my gentle humour about having my own thread) started by being a proposal to Phil to ALSO remind readers about post 2, right at the top of the first post of every update announcement thread.

It’s easy not to know about post 2, when post 1 can be very long and the user just wants to get to updating after scrolling through post 1. I would guess that even fewer users will read a Wiki entry than an update announcement before they jump right into updating.

Did you read the link I posted 2 posts up? I have advocated since the very first Manjaro forum (been a member since 2012/2013) that the warning be given at the most logical place - in the graphical updater – so users who rely on the GUI tool (most likely group to face issues, IMO) – spot the warning. I provided the example of Rigo, Sabayon’s graphical updater that had the warning popup, to show that this was possible in real life, and beyond just proof of concept.

Every few years, a hugely problematic update hits, and people post outraged posts complaining about the same old things as in the current plasma 6 update - why didn’t anyone warn me before the update? If the pamac GUI is not cut out for such big updates, why continue to use it? At least have the updater warn me before I start. How would I even know about having to read update thread? etc etc

When Manjaro the company began selling computers with Manjaro preinstalled, I raised this proposal again. How in the world would people who just bought a computer to use, realise the OS on it needs care in updating? Why in the world would they realise they have to check a forum?

THis is at least the 3rd time that I proposed having the warning directly in the updater-GUI.

But that does not mean it’s useless to mention post 2 in every post 1. I think it’s a good reminder, to educate users, since there will be some that read the forum thread. Probably more so than people who conscientiously read the installer or welcome screen.

Wrong premise. You are assuming that Manjaro would be a consumerist platform. It is not, and no Arch-based distribution will ever be, exactly because of the Arch underpinnings.

Manjaro is a distribution for people willing to commit to maintaining their system and reading the documentation — just as is the case with Arch proper. And the same is expected from people buying any of the devices that come preinstalled with Manjaro.

:point_down:

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OK. I hope they know that! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Well, that would be up to the marketing department, and that’s beyond my pay grade… :man_shrugging:

Perhaps it would be even better (if probably still ignored) if the pamac GUI popped up a prominent warning for any significant upgrade, since that’s probably where most people are going to find out about updates.

I have mentioned this before; also in another thread…

Manjaro Hello is a prime candidate to address much of this concern. I doubt there is anyone here who will fail to see the significance of this app that opens by default in both the Manjaro Live Installer and Manjaro first run.

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It is - but consider this - the majority of the user base very quickly disable the auto start of Manjaro Hello on the their system.

And they are not likely to open it to figure out if they should update or not.

The majority don’t even check the announcement thread before updating.

When anyone buys a system with Linux preinstalled - it is deliberate choice - just as the hardware they buy is a deliberate choice - not likely made on a whim but made from a careful research on hardware, prices, competition etc.

Hardware with Linux preinstalled is rarely bought by a novice computer user but only as either a fully thought through process or simply to try it.

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This only equates to ignoring the help given which is synonymous with the result of virtually every other attempt to provide due dilligence.

For the benefit of those who will be interested enough to RTF announcements, notifications or whatever else might be offered, Manjaro Hello is, at least, a good place to start. That said, there is likely a practical limit as to how many accessible locations can be utilised for the purpose, and how many of those might actually be effective.

At the end of the day (and as we’re all aware), there are a certain percentage of users who will disregard any opportunity to learn; and still argue that Manjaro is somehow responsible for their own ineptitude or ignorance…

…and for those people, the only recourse seems to be…

Let the Good God Darwin sort 'em out!

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16 May 2024: Updated: caught by surprise by the update to Plasma 6 - #77 by nikgnomic

Manjaro forum could have helped a percentage of users by not having a learning delay of 6 hours for Plasma 6 Known Issues & Solutions

Since last year (when some Xfce users were “blinded by the light” of pamac) there is only community support for Xfce-specific issues from Unstable and Testing Branch users

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Am I to understand that this was not in place until six hours after 24.0 reached GA? That being the case, I was unaware of it, however, I’m forced to agree.

I’d actually like to see an enforced delay - but in the other direction - that is: delay the release until supporting documentation is in place.

That could give time to allow a countdown to release with known issues to the fore of any pre-emptive notifications. Of course the nature of Linux communities is such that this is possibly untenable, without some steering involved.

It seems to me pamac-GUI is the most logical location to place any update warning and request to check forum thread first.

Yes, it requires the Manjaro team to do some re-programming of the pamac code, but that’s why I provided the Rigo example. It would appear the source code is still available.

Interesting. I must have missed this.

I note your point that the forum posts 1 and 2 themselves should have given some warning about Plasma 6 right from the time the updates dropped. Should be easy enough to coordinate.

It was clear from the past few months of Plasma testing that widgets, themes etc might cause issues if not reverted, that even plasma 5 configs might be an issue. That could easily have been placed into post 1 and 2 from the start.

While I would always recommend everyone to read the Stable update threads, you can’t expect the ordinary Stable user to also read the Testing/Unstable threads. They chose to stay on Stable for a reason. Warnings should have been copied over to the Stable thread.

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Total agree with that point, i was looking a few times in testing branch (which can’t expect from everyone, who isn’t using testing) and i saw at least from my 5 visits that Know Issues in Testing Branch wasn’t in sync with Known Issues in Stable Branch.

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