Always read post 2 for potential issues and solutions

If you click the following link - https://forum.manjaro.org/u/6x12/preferences/interface
there is an option to set Default Home Page to:

But that will not help with the underlying problem identified by new and inexperienced users:
lack of helpful and timely information in Known issues and Solutions

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https://forum.manjaro.org/u/YOUR_USERNAME/preferences/interface

More like this :wink: Or just click the avatar at the top right and choose Prefs-Interface
p.s. oh wait…you made a link esp. for him…and i clicked it… :facepalm:

Ok, wasn’t aware of that well hidden little gem… :grin:

Anyway, too late, got my bookmarks set to ‘latest’ since I found the regular portal too convoluted; e.g. for ‘Support’ it’s ‘Hello! >> pick one of 11 >> then pick one of 15’, which would kill me.

This is funny - as I generally just run an update if there isn’t a low percentage of issues (e.g. once 6 folks upgraded and only 1-2 had issues, and they’re NVidia users - then juz go for it…).

Then it’s a VERY good idea to check the thread before posting, because that’s when you’re gonna show yourself up.

A bit like the endless stream of people complaining about the update to Plasma 6, which is actually much better than many of the Plasma 5 updates etched into our memories… simply because they didn’t clean up.

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From my point of view there was one downside to everything being rolled up into a huge update. The fact that with the major Python update arriving in the same update as a major KDE update meant I had two things that needed a lot of manual intervention at the same time. Life would have been a bit easier without that, though it’s certainly not the biggest problem I’ve ever encountered on my computer.

Links to categories and sub-categories do not need the category index number:
Support - https://forum.manjaro.org/c/support
Software & Applications - https://forum.manjaro.org/c/support/applications
Third-party Applications - https://forum.manjaro.org/c/support/third-party-applications

Your recent posts with 9 are way beyond most new user’s functional reading limit
Recent "stable" update broke HDMI audio on Steam Deck - #2 by soundofthunder
Gnome 46 stops switching to new connected audio device - #2 by soundofthunder
This sort of verbose Vogon bibliogoraphy has been tried before by other users and does not work for getting inxi data
I have been using a more effective method to get inxi data for about 3 years:

Please post more system information

ìnxi -Fazy

This topic appears to have the same problem as other recent topics. Some users are not responding to OP question but are responding to the usual type of question that has been asked before (straw man fallacy)

All I wanted to do in the original post was to suggest to @philm that Post 1 should always make reference to Post 2.

To me, statements like “people who don’t want to read, won’t bother anyway” don’t make sense. The suggestion is not targeted at those people, because you can’t help those people regardless. Instead, it’s targeted at those who didn’t even know about post 2 and might have been reading it if they had known.

Just because something cannot help 100% of all users, doesn’t mean it is not helpful at all.

After all, it will take very little effort just to add in those few words in post 1.

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You have me at a disadvantage (I haven’t used this forum quite that long), however, I can only guess that this popup bar might not have been compatible with the newer forum.

What you describe seems useful for urgent (or security related) issues. A similar in-your-face solution might also suit “Known Issues”; even if it is a cookie banner, as you describe it, linking to a separate page.

This is a particularly good suggestion, I think, from both the user and management perspectives. Highlighted issues could be maintained on a single page (per branch), and linked to from each Update page as needed, and users would have a central portal to the information.

We know to do just that and (I suppose) it’s reasonable to expect that others will also follow that logic. I’ve noticed that the Update announcement threads can become very long and unwieldly, despite moderator attempts to cull the content.

Some users might find it difficult to scroll back to the beginning - some browsers may even seem to freeze during this process - instead of finding the important information that should have been read, it can indeed be missed completely.
Note:- Edited for clarity.

In this case, I would simply hit Home to reach the beginning of the thread, but I imagine not everyone has this epiphany.

While acknowledging the hhgttg reference, one doubts that the information would be read by the intended recipients, even if it was made to rhyme.

However, a bibliography (of sorts); a curated sitemap of links to relevant contributions would likely be beneficial for newer users. Of course it would need to be easily accessible (and noticeable).

I recall @linux-aarhus composing something similar a few months ago, but I don’t know what became of it.

I agree. Something is clearly needed to encourage maximum engagement (whatever percentage that might be), but what? This should be the focus.

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Today I learned something useful. Thank you.

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you could also just click on the start date at the top of the ‘date slider’ to the right of the thread.

ksnip_20240519-100518

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Okay, then i may have been lucky, because i didn’t have to adjust any program around python in my use case. Which program’s did you use which required manual intervention?

And how difficulty it was?

I wondering why no one bring that up, this situation right now would fit perfectly to the nvidia popup bar that shine at the end of 2020 in everyone face, who visited this Forum.

But maybe im the only one who can remember this? Hello? Anyone here? :crazy_face:

Much that once was is lost…
…for none now live who remember it.

– Galadriel (LOTR) :troll:

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You remind me of:

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I said I wasn’t going to bring this up ever again, but since the forum mods have kindly given me my own thread on how to bring potential issues to a user’s attention before they start updating, I repost my post from the “caught by surprise” thread

This is in response to @Kobold 's post above about a popup bar in the forum, which I don’t remember, probably because I don’t use Nvidia.

Some users don’t visit the forum UNTIL they have already updated and face problems. In my view, if you want to catch users and inform them of potential issues before they actually update, the best place to put the pop up is in pamac GUI itself.

The low hanging fruit are the users who update with the GUI since I think the people who update via terminal are more likely to have better habits about reading update announcements first, and/or be able to handle problems that arise. I know that’s a generalisation, but I think it’s a logical one to make.

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It wasn’t difficult, just a faff. I followed the information here

Python packages installed from the Manjaro repo don’t need any action, but I have some from AUR, some from PIP and searx-ng installed from source (because I’ve never managed to get the AUR package to work).

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The first 3 posts were moved from Stable update announcement

Forum Rules - Misplaced Posts
Any post that is deemed by the staff to be in the wrong forum will be moved to the correct location without warning

Suggestion in OP is similar to this in Wiki

Manjaro Wiki - Stay safe - Software

Best approach is to read posts 1 and 2 of the update announcement, before updating. That is where potential issues and required manual intervention steps are set out.

If the update thread is only a few hours old, it’s better to wait a while. An update in the first 24 hours is only for people who can help themselves :wink:

Most users do not read update announcements until after they have had an issue with updating
So IMO it would better to have a prominent warning before they update for the first time
Either in calamares installer or manjaro-hello welcome screen
But it would still not be read by many users

I believe one of the Mods [correction: a contributor to the Wiki, in Dec 2023] told me he would be copying/adapting that whole paragraph 1 of the current wiki entry from a previous post of mine.

However, this current hived off thread (I think you missed my gentle humour about having my own thread) started by being a proposal to Phil to ALSO remind readers about post 2, right at the top of the first post of every update announcement thread.

It’s easy not to know about post 2, when post 1 can be very long and the user just wants to get to updating after scrolling through post 1. I would guess that even fewer users will read a Wiki entry than an update announcement before they jump right into updating.

Did you read the link I posted 2 posts up? I have advocated since the very first Manjaro forum (been a member since 2012/2013) that the warning be given at the most logical place - in the graphical updater – so users who rely on the GUI tool (most likely group to face issues, IMO) – spot the warning. I provided the example of Rigo, Sabayon’s graphical updater that had the warning popup, to show that this was possible in real life, and beyond just proof of concept.

Every few years, a hugely problematic update hits, and people post outraged posts complaining about the same old things as in the current plasma 6 update - why didn’t anyone warn me before the update? If the pamac GUI is not cut out for such big updates, why continue to use it? At least have the updater warn me before I start. How would I even know about having to read update thread? etc etc

When Manjaro the company began selling computers with Manjaro preinstalled, I raised this proposal again. How in the world would people who just bought a computer to use, realise the OS on it needs care in updating? Why in the world would they realise they have to check a forum?

THis is at least the 3rd time that I proposed having the warning directly in the updater-GUI.

But that does not mean it’s useless to mention post 2 in every post 1. I think it’s a good reminder, to educate users, since there will be some that read the forum thread. Probably more so than people who conscientiously read the installer or welcome screen.

Wrong premise. You are assuming that Manjaro would be a consumerist platform. It is not, and no Arch-based distribution will ever be, exactly because of the Arch underpinnings.

Manjaro is a distribution for people willing to commit to maintaining their system and reading the documentation — just as is the case with Arch proper. And the same is expected from people buying any of the devices that come preinstalled with Manjaro.

:point_down:

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OK. I hope they know that! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Well, that would be up to the marketing department, and that’s beyond my pay grade… :man_shrugging: