A GUI "app shop" for Manjaro


#21

I have been doing some in-depth research.

I also have tested how it could be possible to include special Manjaro apps.

Since the most specialized Manjaro apps are installed when installing manjaro-system or one of the full iso-profiles I have found that to accomplish the wish of the OP it is only necessarry to install gnome-software.

Though this includes an archlinux-appstream-data it is absolutely covering the needs of the people the OP refers to.

It (gnome-software) could be made a part of the full iso-profiles but that would be a decision for the core team to make.


#22

And what happens after half a year? :slight_smile:


#23

Reinstall the new ISO version keeping the home partition.


#24

Well, then there should be a home partition in the first place, which is not certain for this type of users. Also, if you reinstall every half a year, you need to reinstall all the packages which were added to the standard install, maybe do some system-wide configuration, etc. Also, people who don’t want to deal with the “engine of the car” probably won’t want to reinstall their OS every half a year.


#25

One Linux distros strength that I promote is that most distros come with apps and that apps are updated with the OS. :wink:

Gnome software is a startup level : not translated, minimal description, no ratings, no feedbacks.

To tell you some of my “converted”.

  • My father - 83 - shouted at first - Ooops I didn’t tranfer his wallpaper - Corrected, told him to update. That’s all
  • a couple I know, in their 60’s - forest workers - never had a computer - 15 minutes training - now, Mr read his paper on the computer, Ms is on FB day long.

These are my extremes, I also have independant lawyers, consultants, CFO’s…

To the ones I shifted to Manjaro, rolling is a definite quality, as well as efficience (faster thand other distribs)


#26

I agree that there is a gap for a newbie between “install Manjaro” and “what to install next”, but this is notbest filled with a dumbed down app store. It is best to read https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/List_of_applications, try some of them out, read the descriptions of new hits in Pamac and know what you need after several months.


#27

Well… YOU will tell my 83 years old french father to fiddle with the wiki, I won’t :wink:


#28

Actually - clicking on a software title reveals a lot of info including reviews and ratings

For translations - this is up to those people who deliver the software.
Maybe the even has a Transifex for that.
When it has been made but only a few uses it, it is a dead end to begin a new project for a single distro like Manjaro.

Regards


#29

No, I would say “Stay away from Manjaro, unless you have someone who administrates it for you.” I decided myself many times when I installed Linux on other people’s computers not to install Manjaro, but rather s.th. Ubuntu based and with a good local community support.
BTW: An old age doesn’t make a person a bad reader, it is often the other way round, so the link to the list of applications I even give to users of other distros.


#30

Too bad :confused:

In my experience, apart the point I raise on this topic, Manjaro is the one distribution I spend the less time to administrate…
(apart my unstable, but that’s just for fun & thrill !)


#31

My experience is the same - I volunteer in a Linux group of people mostly men +60 - a group founded on Ubuntu - my oh my - they spend so much time installing and reinstalling and … Last time I attended one asked how it come I never do that … while he watched I installed the manjaro-tools and build a gnome-iso, wrote it to his usb drive.

He booted the live image and was almost immediately sold - he said - ‘I think my Linux life starts now’. He has a hardcore Asus Laptop with i7, ssd and 32GB memory and several distributions including windows installed in dualboot - and I recommended VirtualBox - showed him how easy it is even windows - he was going home to physically install it and rip his harddrive for dualboot.


#32

Ideally, such an “app store GUI program” would do just that: present one (in categories) the available programs with a decent description and preferably a way to rate the program. The Arch wiki is totally fine, but if one cares about “coverts” or beginners, it is IMHO not reasonable to assume that they will consider a wiki (with a lot of technical info they don’t need) that is for “another” distribution. Providing an “app-shop” does also not equal to do away the decent package manager(s) that Manjaro has.

I know that people are confused easily if you have multiple possibilities to install “things”, but I also think that if communicated properly, people would benefit from having an “app shop” and a package manager. Again, on the other hand, I have yet to see a linux app shop that would be really decent, most of them are clumsy to use or bland or both.

As a “quick fix”, what about implementing in octopi
(a) the option to tick a box that reads “show only GUI programs”, and
(b) groups that match with the usual categories found in the average start menus.

This would already do a good deal of the job to bring the GUI-apps to the attention of the user and already categorize them in a useful way.


#33

What would a software browser named ‘app shop’ which categorizes the avaliable packages and is able to filter them by rating or by containing a GUI bring to Manjaro?

Maybe it would bring more newbies and users who are not interested in reading the forums or the wikis. Would this be good? These users would would hardly contribute and would probably dislike Manjaro, since they wouldn’t be able to fix most issues just because they were not interested in reading and manually troubleshooting, which is rare, but needed once a year or so :yum:

If they are users not interested in reading and learning about Manjaro / Linux, maybe they would be best suited with either an installation managed by someone else, where they can’t install nor update anything and therefore, can’t break it, or with a OS which offers support in ways they are more used to, such as a call center or a ‘PC repair shop’ (usually those deal with Windows and Mac only).

Manjaro is user friendly, that is for sure. Linux newbie friendly? Also checked. But being a rolling release and quasi-bleeding edge, I think users are expected to know where to run to in case things go bad and to know how to find information about the software they need.

Installing packages on manjaro is not hard, and definetly not harder than installing new software on Windows 7 and previous releases. But an ‘app shop’ style software center? Maybe the users proffiting from it would be better off with a Ubuntu or Mint installation?


#34

Well, I can understand that a distro designer is so proud of his work that he wants everybody to look at it and understand his deeds.

That human.

Manjaro is indeed very simple to install, administrate, is very stable and allows to get rid of the version updates. All which fulfills 90% of the dreams of the mainstream users.

Then, why, because of the very proudness, insisting on having that mainstream person go under the hood instead of facilitating ?
I am a little puzzled by this consequence.

I may imagine that W$ does’nt want people to go under their hood because they’re not proud of what’s in there, but nevertheless they’ve a lot of users ! :smiley:

Don’t mean that Manjaro has to look like W$ though, just feel that completing the job for the newbee is a road for nice happening :wink:


#35

Sorry, but this is rather a LFS-attitude [Linux from scratch, for not possibly being misinterpreted]. Why should we need a package manager that can handle dependencies. It just attracts people unwilling to understand the architecture of the whole system and not reading the package-intern readme files … :wink:

I am a long-term Linux user. And even I would be interested in such an app-shop. Why? For convenience, because I may find gems that I still have not stumbled upon, because I would be interested how others rate a particular program (if only for adjusting my expectations).

Maybe I am also a little bit different from the majority of Linux users, but I would even buy proprietary apps, if they just do what I need without me making compromises. However, no-one will ever make and offer such end-user-programs, if the only possibility to get them is a package manager. I do buy Android apps, I do donate to open-source projects. And I do think that a viable app shop could bring benefit for users and developers alike (I am thinking of e.g. the donation app for some of android apps).


#36

GNU/Linux and Android are very different OS. Transfering Adnroid approach to Linux would make little sense. Android is chaos, Linux is order. For chaos you need powerfull, distributed and fuzzy search approches. For order you need self evident structures and search functions which help you find what you already know about.

Second point, usefulness of existing app stores. I tested some of them on different distros and found none of them really enlightening. Usually the give you most popular packages or packages which the developer want to appear first in a list. It is unlikely to find anything there which you would not think of anyway. Ok, this might be useful for users who are different than I.

Third point, I followed the development processes as tester on different distros and I know how much work it is to develop a package installer which does more than just show pacman output in a grid with icons for applications, but adds some more information. The distros which have such additional package GUI usually limit themselves on one DE or have a bigger team of developers.

For Manjaro only setting up existing solutions like Discover for KDE and gnome-software would be an option. They would need to be tweaked to work with Manjaro instead of Arch. It seems to be viable, see the posts by fhdk above



Let’s see the outcome.
It will definitely not become an app store, but probably GUI for pacman which is visually more appealing.


#37

Yes, I know (and you’re right) with the Android bits. This kind of an App store would require that the whole ecosystem is (a) big enough and (b) well staffed and equipped from the beginning, i.e. nothing any linux distribution can reasonably claim for itself (if half of the Linux world runs Whateverbuntu it would make 1% (optimistically) of PC users.

Second, I agree again that I have not yet seen an App-store that was really nice. But that should not be a reason not to make one. I’d say the Linux Mint version had something due to the rating system and for being able to browse the categories, but of course the shop as such does not change what is available for install … the usual suspects.

Last time I tested Discover it was a mixed bag (with potential). I should check the last version on my KDE neon install (a machine that I use only from time to time), but my last impression was that the overall GUI was still, ähm, counterintuitive for me and the evident amounts of lost screen estate were also persisting.

Could, instead of Discover, octopi be modified to show the categories of programs and to optionally exclude non-GUI programs? Then one could browse GUI programs by category and check their description, AND at the same time have a consistent package manager experience.


#38

Where to get a database of GUI or non-GUI programs? Creating and updating one is a task which is best done by Discover or Gnome Software and not by Manjaro team.
Edit: Maybe it’s what appstream-data does.


#39

I don’t know, couldn’t that be done by defining a set of dependencies (e.g. xserver, kwin, mutter, libgtk3, etc.) that usually all GUI programs depend on (at least on one of them) and show only those programs? As far as the categories go, isn’t there a package description that tells the package manager where to put the program in the start menu after installation? Just ideas …


#40

Yes but it has already been done, see Gnome Software or KDE/QT equivalent Discovery.
If you want it go get it and enjoy.